Tax fight is a political smokescreen

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The latest government scam is a game played by both parties, pretending to fight about "extending the Bush tax cuts."

These "cuts" are merely the present tax rates and have been in operation for some time -- thus, (1) they are no longer cutting anything, and (2) they still allow government far too much money.

To fix our government, we must cut taxes, agencies, departments, programs, government size and government power -- and with cuts of major proportions, not just "extending" something already in place. We got in this mess while under the "Bush tax cuts." So obviously, they helped knock us into the present hole.

The apparent fight between the Democrats and the GOP is just a showbiz game politicians play while, in the background, both parties have big plans for bigger taxes and less freedom. To make a deal on this won't cure anything, so when you hear a politician -- conservative or liberal -- harping about it, watch your back.

Bill Dekle

Millen

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Romar-2
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Romar-2 12/06/10 - 12:42 am
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Cutting is defintely needed,

Cutting is defintely needed, but government revenues are generated by taxes, and at this time most of our paying are fair share. We must make choices and stick to them. The Govt. must also use our tax dollars more wisely, these earmarks, pork, and yes, oh, yes foreign aid must go and be cut sharply. We can no longer afford to take care of the world, while our world (the US) comes tumbling down. It will be a change, but a change which is well over due. If Israel and Palestine want to bomb each other to death, have at it. If S. and N. Korea want to play games with bombs, oh,well. We can offer diplomatic solutions without the cash.

sjgraci
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sjgraci 12/06/10 - 03:47 am
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Cuts must be made to the

Cuts must be made to the military industrial complex and two wars. Plus, taxes to income dollars above $250,000 must go back to the rates of what they were 10 years ago. Everyone in this country will still see tax cuts on income under $250,000, the rich and poor alike.

Mad Hatter
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Mad Hatter 12/06/10 - 05:34 am
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sjgraci.....do you not

sjgraci.....do you not believe in equal protection under the law? Why must those making over 250k be taxed at a disproportionate rate than the rest? Wealth envy is an ugly thing. Would you be satisfied if the "military industrial complex" only protected those who make over 250k? Would you like it if only those making over 250k could drive on public roads, since you think they are the ones who should pay for them. Do you think people making over 250k should be the only one's who can use public schools? You seem to think they should pay more than anyone else for these things, yet you think those making under 250k should get the same benefits. Where's equal protection? It doesn't exist under socialism!

Mad Hatter
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Mad Hatter 12/06/10 - 05:58 am
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"Everyone in this country

"Everyone in this country will still see tax cuts on income under $250,000, the rich and poor alike."

That has got to be the most idiotic statements I've seen in a while.

carcraft
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carcraft 12/06/10 - 06:35 am
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Gee why doesn't everybody

Gee why doesn't everybody have an oar in the water to help? SJGracie-If you really think that 10 years ago things were that great , then lets go back!! I'll support the same tax rates we had 10 years ago BUT we get rid of , Obama health care, The stimulus package, TSA's body searchs, HARRY REID, PELOSI, and OBAMA!

robaroo
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robaroo 12/06/10 - 07:51 am
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Tax cuts without spending

Tax cuts without spending cuts don't help the economy in the long run, they just increase the debt and make the interest payments worse. Until the budget is balanced, I am opposed to them.

Rhetor
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Rhetor 12/06/10 - 07:55 am
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Actually, Hatter, the

Actually, Hatter, the statement in question is factually correct. The proposed tax on the high income earners applies only to their marginal income, not to all of their income. Even if the tax cuts, which the Republicans had promised would be temporary, expire, the rich will still be paying at a lower rate than they did under Reagan.

Rhetor
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Rhetor 12/06/10 - 07:55 am
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Craft, although you're

Craft, although you're entitled to your opinion, please remember that about 1/3 of the stimulus consisted of tax breaks and tax cuts.

TheFederalist
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TheFederalist 12/06/10 - 08:25 am
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Bottom line, paying someone

Bottom line, paying someone to sit home for two long years will not result in lowering the jobless rate, quickly approaching 10%. It just creates yet another entitlement class totally dependent on the Democrat's largess with taxpayer dollars to enable them to stay home on the couch for another 6 months. One thing is certain, as I predicted, Darth Hussein & Co, despite the clear message sent by the Amercan people last November, still don't "Get It". No matter, as his firmly entrenched liberal socialist idealism will absolutely insure that he serves only one term.

Sandpiper
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Sandpiper 12/06/10 - 08:34 am
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I never understood the

I never understood the "punish the achievers" attitude of the socialist left. Who do they think is providing their "government benefits"?
Still, there are a trillion dollars in cuts that need to be made immediately and several trillion in spending cuts that need to be made over the coming decade. The unrestricted spending by congressmen (who spend too many years in office) needs to be curtailed.
The TEA party movement by conservatives is a starting point. The voters need to hold the politician's feet to the fire EVERY DAY. The fiscal irresponsibility of our leaders exists because of generations of allowing ourselves to be led without holding our leaders responsible for their actions.
So far, every time our politicians talk "tax cuts" it's been a smoke screen that's hidden the "tax shift" and "tax increase". We, the voter, have stood by and allowed it. Now that the wave of objection has made its first strike, the voter needs to remain involved between elections to ensure our wishes are attended to. Don't just comment on this thread, notify your representative and senator and let them know what you demand.

nofanofobama
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nofanofobama 12/06/10 - 09:13 am
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i am confused all the

i am confused all the Democrats have told us for years and years that the bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 were only for the rich..now all the dems talk about is the middle class tax cut of bush that they want to extend and to save the middle class from higher taxes....what is it? have they been lying to us for years? no not the dems , you know the ones in who are in favor of the little quy..

NoCatchyName
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NoCatchyName 12/06/10 - 09:26 am
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The real issue is GOVERNMENT

The real issue is GOVERNMENT SPENDING. If this is not controlled and soon, there will not be enough income in the economy to to pay for it no matter what the rates are.

dani
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dani 12/06/10 - 10:25 am
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Rhetor "please remember that

Rhetor
"please remember that about 1/3 of the stimulus consisted of tax breaks and tax cuts"

I realize that it's one of the main Democrat talking point, but no one seems to know who got those tax breaks.

Did they go to the large corporations maybe?

dani
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dani 12/06/10 - 10:33 am
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Okay, I was just told that

Okay, I was just told that the stimulus tax breaks consisted of things like housing credits, electric cars, cash for clunkers, and this one "Renewable Energy Tax Credits $19,968,000,000. Even some type of credit for Social Security recipients, I don't understand that at all since they have been hit the hardest.
I love those tax breaks.

Rhetor
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Rhetor 12/06/10 - 10:48 am
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Actually, Dani, I don't think

Actually, Dani, I don't think that your source informed you adequately. 90% of taxpayers received the Making Work Pay tax credit, an Obama program, which included immediate refund checks (Glenn Beck told his listeners not to cash those checks, typical of the uninformed advice that he dishes out). Withholding rates were reduced in stages a couple of years ago. Unless you make a very high income indeed, you certainly received substantial tax breaks. The Obama administration doled these out in small pieces, instead of all at once, hoping to encourage more consumer confidence. Many people didn't notice the tax breaks because they didn't all come at once, because no one program was huge, and because the Dems didn't trumpet tax relief the way they should have. Almost all Americans are paying taxes at a far lower rate than at any time in the living memory of most people. If you carefully check your pay stubs, checking account, and tax returns for the past three years, you should be able to verify this (unless you are in a very high income bracket). The irony is that even the rich are now paying less in taxes than they did under Reagan, and yet the Tea Party still complains that the Dems are taxing and spending.
This is a different point from the LTE, which argues, reasonably enough, that there is a need to reduce the size of government irrespective of tax rates.

dichotomy
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dichotomy 12/06/10 - 11:07 am
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We have a big problem in this

We have a big problem in this country. We PC wise can't do anything to tax the "poor" and politically wise can't do much to tax the "middle class". So everyone hollers "tax the rich". Sorry folks, the "rich" don't have enough money to cure our SPENDING problems if you took everything they make, which OBTW, would only last one year since they would just quit trying. Our progressive tax rate system is inherently Socialist. I know it sounds good to always figure on taking someone else's money instead of your money, but it isn't right, isn't fair, and won't work very long, especially if we keep spending more and more. We need a flat tax rate for everyone. If every person in this country knows that THEIR taxes will go up when Congress spends more money or comes up with another program you can bet that more people will start paying attention and watching Congress' spending habits more closely. The answer to our problems is SPENDING CUTS, not shifting the tax burden to someone else. If everyone had to PAY, then you can bet a lot more people would be pushing for SPENDING CUTS. This tax rate thing has not got anything to do with protecting the rich. It's got everything to do with a certain percentage of people who want someone else to pay their bills for them. We need a flat tax on every dollar that moves in the economy from food stamps, to welfare checks, to church income from investments, to capital gains and interest and dividends. One rate for all and tax every dollar. Bet you would watch Congress a lot closer then.

Rhetor
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Rhetor 12/06/10 - 11:12 am
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Dichotomy, there is a point

Dichotomy, there is a point behind your argument. However, do note that the poor can't pay much because they don't have much to pay. Also, due in part to a complex system of tax breaks, incentives, etc., driven by lobbying pressures and campaign contributions, there has been a steady shift in our nation's wealth away from the working people who produce it and toward the super-rich--a group to which I suspect you do not belong. This trend is not sustainable in the long run. People need to see some incentive in return for their work and contribution. To the extent that the rich get that way by hard work and good judgment, fine, but a lot of it has been due to gaming the political system, which is not fine. Also, you might explain why the people who get the most benefit from our political and economic system might not be willing to support it.

kmb413
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kmb413 12/06/10 - 11:34 am
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If everyone over $250,000 is

If everyone over $250,000 is to be taxed more heavily, there will be a lot of people finding ways to make 249,999.

I C U 2
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I C U 2 12/06/10 - 11:49 am
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In reply to kmb413. Bingo !!!

In reply to kmb413. Bingo !!! It's easy too. Just lay off some employee's. Why provide a job for someone who is costing you money. I call it redistributing opportunity. The opportunity to find another job. Like what just happened to some democratic employee's during the midterm elections. ROFLMAO !!!

Rhetor
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Rhetor 12/06/10 - 12:27 pm
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Math problems, guys. Making

Math problems, guys. Making more money doesn't cause you to have less total income, because the additional tax is only on the margin. I.e., if you make $300,000, you would pay at the higher rate only on the $50,000, not the first $250,000. In any case, it appears that the Dems and Reps are working out a compromise to let the wealthy keep their money in return for concessions on other points.

ReformedRepub
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ReformedRepub 12/06/10 - 01:25 pm
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Eliminating these taxes,

Eliminating these taxes, according to Factcheck.org would eliminate almost 4 TRILLION dollars from the deficit over the next ten years. What cuts do Republicans pose to offset this addition to the deficit, or is it just Democrats who need to cut things?

ReformedRepub
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ReformedRepub 12/06/10 - 01:34 pm
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Payin taxes on profits is not

Payin taxes on profits is not punishment, sandpiper, it's paying for the benefits this country gives, not just to the poor that you are so disdainful of, but to everyone. I work, I make decent money, and I say ELIMINATE ALL the Bush cuts. They add almost 4 TRILLION to the deficit. As my Mom's tax preparer said to her once, when she was griping about taxes,"If you didn't MAKE THE MONEY, you wouldn't have to pay the taxes". Personally, I'd be happy to pay more taxes, because it would mean I was making more money. Society today is heartless, crude and un-Christian. It is perverse and thrill seeking, totally enamored with self. I never once heard my conservative mother complain about the poor receiving help, as society believed, once, in helping each other, no matter the cost to themselves.

Many Arrows
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Many Arrows 12/06/10 - 02:07 pm
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Great comments, folks. The

Great comments, folks.

The MATH says much pain is coming. Can we take it and reclaim America? Or will we whimper into the darkness consigning the kids to a bleak future?

Time will tell.

Sandpiper's comment above was excellent.

burninater
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burninater 12/06/10 - 02:40 pm
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"please remember that about

"please remember that about 1/3 of the stimulus consisted of tax breaks and tax cuts".

This post would fit on the AC thread about scams......
-------
According to the CBO the actual number is ~22% of the stimulus = tax cut. I know this doesn't fit nicely into the blather, but those are real tax cuts, not "scams".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2009/02/01/GR200902...

kmb413
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kmb413 12/06/10 - 02:42 pm
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If so many Democrats are so

If so many Democrats are so willing to pay more taxes, go ahead and write the check and send it in. I am sure the govt will be happy to get your contribution.

I believe that the 'tax cuts' should no longer be referred to as cuts. They should be referred to as our current tax rates. If it isn't passed to keep out current tax rates it should be considered a tax increase.

Chillen
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Chillen 12/06/10 - 05:32 pm
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We must cut all govt

We must cut all govt spending, drastically. Military (end wars!), govt pensions, bloated govt pay, bloated departments, foreign aid, global scam warming, the EPA, the FCC, all of it!!!!

We also need to cut entitlements and in essence "force" these folks to go to work in order to survive. 15% of our nation living off the work efforts of others will not work out for us in the long term.

Mad Hatter
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Mad Hatter 12/06/10 - 06:14 pm
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Rhetor....it is NOT a factual

Rhetor....it is NOT a factual statement. The statement was "Everyone in this country will still see tax cuts on income under $250,000, the rich and poor alike." If the tax cuts expire, the taxes will go UP for those making $250,000 or more. What part of that don't you understand?

Darby
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Darby 12/06/10 - 06:17 pm
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"We must cut all govt

"We must cut all govt spending, drastically. Military (end wars!), govt pensions, bloated govt pay, bloated departments, foreign aid, global scam warming, the EPA, the FCC, all of it!!!!"

Agree for the most part except that wars can't be ended unilaterally except through combat and victory. Unless you decide to just give up the fight.

LiveAndLetLive
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LiveAndLetLive 12/08/10 - 05:18 am
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Please tell your

Please tell your congressperson to vote against extending the Bush Tax Cuts and let them all expire. That is the only feasible way our country will become fiscally sound in a reasonable amount of time: in 20-30 years, not 50-100 years from 2011.

Thank you

Oh, but wait...I forgot. We need to spend billions to build bombs...to kill billions--before they kill us! Now I finally realize that it is really true. It is US...vs the World.

Mad Hatter
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Mad Hatter 12/08/10 - 05:26 am
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So crippling the economy is

So crippling the economy is the only feasible way to become fiscally sound? Makes sense, liveandletlive. I guess YOU want to increase taxes so you can get money to make those bombs?

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