Paper is wrong on Ground Zero mosque

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The Chronicle could not be more wrong in its opinion regarding the Islamic cultural center in lower Manhattan.

First, it has the facts wrong. The Cordoba House will not be at Ground Zero. It will be a couple blocks away among restaurants, shops, buildings and churches. The Cordoba House fits in neatly among them while none of them are appropriate for this, or any other, actual memorial site.

Second, The Chronicle uses the same line other opponents begin with, asserting that it has nothing to do with religious freedom. Hogwash. It has everything to do with religious freedom. The Chronicle asserts that it is instead a matter of religious tolerance. But tolerance is the commodity a minority religion needs where there is an absence of religious freedom.

Our country was founded on the combination of religious freedom and government neutrality. That is what President Obama was driving at. Excepting pre-existing, neutrally-applied laws such as fire codes, it is simply not the government's business to weigh in on this matter. The president is the patriot for reminding us of this. The Chronicle staff and other opponents are the ones that need a civics course.

The Chronicle is right to compare this to other extremists, but its conclusions are in error and there are better examples. Just as James von Brunn (killer of the guard at the Holocaust Memorial) and Scott Roeder (killer of abortion doctor George Tiller) did not act on behalf of law-abiding U.S. Christians, the 9-11 attackers did not act on behalf of law-abiding U.S. Muslims. And that is precisely what we are dealing with here.

When The Chronicle and others of its ilk compare the law-abiding U.S. Muslims involved with the Cordoba House to the 9-11 attackers, it is, for all intents, defaming more than 10 million law-abiding U.S. citizens for the sole reason that their religion is both different from that of The Chronicle's staff and the same as the 9-11 villains over whom they asserted no control.

Finally, The Chronicle gets it wrong when it says much of the Muslim world will see this as a monument to the 9-11 attackers. Certainly some in that world will see it that way. But the vast majority, who are law-abiding citizens of their own countries, will judge our leadership, and talk of freedom, based on what we do here.

We can listen to The Chronicle and let them down, or we can "walk the talk" and engender the goodwill that reduces the hostility that leads to al-Qaida recruits and, as a consequence, larger threats to our soldiers overseas and ourselves at home.

It's a good thing this country is based on religious freedom. If we lacked it, and had to rely on the tolerance of those like The Chronicle's staff, the law-abiding religious minority citizens of this country would have much to fear.

Matt Alan

North Augusta, S.C.

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orb
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orb 08/29/10 - 01:45 pm
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Ellsworth, Alan, and Ledo

Ellsworth, Alan, and Ledo parrot the same leftist neo-Fascist line joined, as would be expected, by GGpap. Alan and Ledo show inordinate concern for the rights of the so-called moderate Mohammedans yet which group of these people have ever openly condemned the attacks of 9/11. Now they want to rub our nose in it!

As for Ellsworth, in her irrational exuberance, she condemns the leftist Congress and leftist media along with those "wascals" Palin and Beck.

Of course Krauthammer answers all 4 and any other like minded: "The last refuge of liberals-blaming Bigotry!

orb
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orb 08/29/10 - 01:52 pm
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johnston, cliff You ask:

johnston, cliff

You ask: "Please, Matt Alan, what does it take for 1+1 to = 2 in your deductive reasoning?"

Of course that depends on: What is the meaning of 1? What is the meaning of 2? What is the meaning of =? And obviously it depends on what the meaning of "is" is?

orb
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orb 08/29/10 - 01:59 pm
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NoCatchyName You say: "I

NoCatchyName

You say: "I suggest that if the true intention of the Muslims was to promote understanding, healing, and unity, they would not be acting so divisively."

The true intention of the followers of Mohammed is the establishment of "sharia law" worldwide! Sadly those so-called "liberals" who are so tolerant of everyone except Christians and political Conservatives have blinded themselves by looking too long at the annointed one!

corgimom
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corgimom 08/29/10 - 02:22 pm
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Since there are crazy

Since there are crazy Christian terrorists that bomb abortion clinics, then I guess we should be sensitive and not build Christian churches near those sites.

And since Timothy McVeigh was a Christian, we should also be sensitive and not build Christian churches near the Federal building in Oklahoma City.

Looks different that way, doesn't it?

TheFederalist
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TheFederalist 08/29/10 - 02:45 pm
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Again you use every liberal

Again you use every liberal trick in the book, to try and muddy the water, even to the extent that you posted above. Absolutely ludicrous!

Let's see...how many crazy Christian terrorists have we had to deal with lately?

How many abortion clinics have been bombed lately?

You're analogy is just so typical though of how far off the path you liberals will go, just how desperate you are, just how deluded you can possibly be, to make a point, no matter how laughable.

However, since you insist, I'll play your silly game.

Ok, you show me the location where Christian terrorists caused the deaths of 3000 innocent lives, while crying out, "all for Christ!", as they mercilessly killed them all in the name of Christ.

Then I would agree that a Christian church should not be built within a few blocks of that site, out of sensitivity for the survivors.

You liberals happy now? You got me!

JusticeForEva
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JusticeForEva 08/29/10 - 03:17 pm
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The continuing effort of the

The continuing effort of the right to link the Constitution with
the Bible, and to rewrite history, fabricating some sort of
quasi-religious government created by a bunch of Bible-thumping
politicians, is just pure hokum. And to continually go around condemning
everyone else in the world who does not agree with their particular
beliefs as immoral or evil, is condescension of the worst sort -- a
blatant hatred of your fellow man.

Chant or sing or dance in honor or whatever superman in the sky you
choose, but don't shove it on everyone else. And please stop trying to
hijack the Constitution as a vehicle for your pet societal reformation
program. It belongs to everyone, including all those who disagree with
your agenda.

JusticeForEva
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JusticeForEva 08/29/10 - 03:21 pm
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Religion: "My Imaginary

Religion:

"My Imaginary friend is better than yours!"
"No mine!"
"No mine!"
"Mine mine mine!"
..."MINE!"
"MINE MINE MINE!!"

That's pretty much it. For millenia. Christianity is no better than Islam and is Islam is no better than Christianity. Both religious have extremists and intolerant bigots. Let them build their Mosque. You Christians are not the only ones who have freedoms and rights in this country. Besides it's down the street and around the coroner from Ground Zero. You guys act as if it's being built right next to Ground Zero when it's not. Get your facts straight!

impossible
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impossible 08/29/10 - 03:26 pm
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As usual the libs prefer to
Unpublished

As usual the libs prefer to serve up strawmen rather than discuss the issue. As others have correctly stated, it's not about religious freedom, but the missing "tolerance" and "basic courtesy" that the Muslims should be demonstrating toward the 9/11 survivors and toward this country that bends over backwards to defend freedom of religion and speech.

JusticeForEva
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JusticeForEva 08/29/10 - 03:28 pm
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What about the "tolerance'

What about the "tolerance' You Christians show everyone by trying to ban everything you don't morally agree with? How about the tolerance you show towards women's rights or gay rights? You people have no right to talk about tolerance. Most of you can't even distinguish between the actual Islam faith and the the extremists who attacked us on 9/11. Give me a break!

soldout
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soldout 08/29/10 - 03:33 pm
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Jesus promoted women's rights

Jesus promoted women's rights which has no connection to the sins of gays. Without the influence of Christianity there would be no women's rights.

momster59
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momster59 08/29/10 - 03:38 pm
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"Without the influence of

"Without the influence of Christianity there would be no women's rights."

Are you serious? I agree that Jesus was progressive in his approach to women on an equal level as he approached men, but Christianity is hardly the only belief system that promotes equality of the sexes. While many Christians supported the women's rights movements, the "christian" opposition (supposedly based on the bible) was LOUD and CLEAR. The right for a man to beat his children and especially his wife was "supported" by scripture according to them also. There have been many equality based and even matriarchal societies that are not Christian societies. Where do you get this stuff?

JusticeForEva
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JusticeForEva 08/29/10 - 03:50 pm
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Probably Sundays at church

Probably Sundays at church from Pastor Jethro :-P

Asitisinaug
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Asitisinaug 08/29/10 - 04:24 pm
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I would have to agree that

I would have to agree that some of the comments here are just absurd. I am certainly a conservative and a Christian but I also respect the rights of others to practice their religion so long as those beliefs do not conflict with the laws of our counrty. I know plenty of Muslims and am very good friends with some as well. I can not speak for most Muslims but for those I know, terrorism, etc. is the furthest thing from their minds. Likewise, they do not believe in the need to build a Mosque at this location and that the builders are at the very least suspect. This paticular mosque is absolutely not about religious freedom, and most of those opposing it have nothing against Islam or Muslims but everything against an unknown cleric who has made very negative comments about the US, fails to properly condone terrorism and admits that they will accept funds from countries such as Iran to build a Mosque adjacent to ground zero is deplorable. If those building this Mosque are trying to teach tollerance they are very misguided individuals.

TheFederalist
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TheFederalist 08/29/10 - 04:42 pm
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Now we find that the mosque

Now we find that the mosque developers are tax deadbeats.

Sharif El-Gamal, the leading organizer behind the mosque and community center near Ground Zero, owes $224,270.77 in back property tax on the site, city records show.

El-Gamal's company, 45 Park Place Partners, failed to pay its half-yearly bills in January and July, according to the city Finance Department.

The delinquency is a possible violation of El-Gamal's lease with Con Edison, which owns half of the proposed building site on Park Place. El-Gamal owns the other half but must pay taxes on the entire parcel.

Geistlich
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Geistlich 08/29/10 - 04:43 pm
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Justice4Eva, I realize that

Justice4Eva, I realize that you think you are the center of the universe, and that any one who has any spiritual leanings at all are beneath your contempt, but, have you read any of the documents which remain from the Constitutional Conventions? Have you gone back and looked at the writings of the Christians who founded this nation? Do you not see that it was those men who first proposed tolerance for the beliefs of others? Does your religion permit mine to exist without harassment? If you think that Islam, or any other pagan religion, is better than the Judaism of the descendants of Abraham, or than the way of the believers in Jesus, you are deluding yourself. I do not often post here, and will not post further on this topic but to say that the writer of the letter which sparked this discussion is sorely misinformed, and needs to go to original sources for his enlightenment. The Federalist and the Anti-Federalist papers would be a good start.

papersonja
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papersonja 08/29/10 - 04:47 pm
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Thank you Matt Alan for your

Thank you Matt Alan for your factual letter. I am a US law-abiding, tax-paying, small business-owner citizen who is also a revert to Islam. I feel as though my religion was high-jacked on 9-11. I do not have to defend my faith because it is not guilty. Defending my US government's foreign policies, on the other hand, is what is difficult to impossible. Some of the policies and decisions are incomprehensible, especially those related to wars that kill too many of my fellow US citizens and also too many innocent practitioners of my faith.

JusticeForEva
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JusticeForEva 08/29/10 - 05:07 pm
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Some of our founding fathers

Some of our founding fathers were not Christian. Yes I want all religions to exist without harassment. However I see Christians protesting any and everything they do not agree with. Banning any TV show, musician, movie they think is evil. Trying to set back womens rights decades. Not even allowing gay rights. I'm not trying to single out Christians on purpose it's just that it happens to be I live in the Bible belt and I run into more intolerance and bigotry from so-called Christians than I have with any other group. Believe what you want! Just don't try to shove it down's everyone's throats. Do not try to justify passing laws or denying rights based on your book of fairy tales that may or may not be true. It's ridiculous! Why can't you just pray on Sundays and Wednesdays? Worship privately in your own homes and churches? And keep your Bible out of the government???

By the way I'm not religious. I don't have a religion. I don't even call myself an atheist. Screw religion. It's just a tool to get people to blindly follow you based on fear-mongering and a tool to oppress others. The world is going to be such a better place once we as a species finally move past this fairytale nonsense making everyone hate and kill each other!

TheFederalist
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TheFederalist 08/29/10 - 05:11 pm
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So now the truth comes out.

So now the truth comes out. When scratched, liberals usually end up bearing their teeth and claws, forget about using red herrings as futile reasons to label most Americans as bigots, and we get to the real reasons for their hatred. Deeply rooted, media supported, long held liberal anti-Christian bias. Yep, those evil Christians. 

Christianity. The last bastion against the worldwide tsunami of the gay, liberal, atheist, muslim, progressive, social justice loving crowd that is hell bent on nothing less than the absolute eradication of the faith that founded this nation.

Good luck with that, ok?

DaveMustaineRules
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DaveMustaineRules 08/29/10 - 05:19 pm
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The religious freedom

The religious freedom envisioned by the founding fathers concerned faiths in the Judeo/Christian tradition. Islam, whether considered a religion or a cult, is completely incompatible with a free society. The conflict is due to the core belief in Islam that all states must exist as theocracies with Islam as the ruling religion.

Any mosque, regardless of the location, is a threat to our society and our freedom. Americans should be as concerned about the mosques spread across the nation as they are about the mosque to be located next to ground zero.

I hope the Columbia County Sheriff's Department is closely monitoring any mosques located within its jurisdiction.

TheFederalist
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TheFederalist 08/29/10 - 05:21 pm
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Well said Dave! The simple

Well said Dave! The simple truth is that even now Christianity and Islam are clashing in Europe, because wherever there are Muslims, sooner or later there will be the attempt to institute sharia law. It is already beginning in this country as well. It is a fact.

DaveMustaineRules
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DaveMustaineRules 08/29/10 - 05:28 pm
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You are correct Federalist.

You are correct Federalist. For a Muslim, sharia is the only law which exists. They pay lip service to our laws and twist our laws against us to spread throughout this country.

Sargebaby
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Sargebaby 08/29/10 - 05:37 pm
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Dave, I gotta disagree! I

Dave, I gotta disagree! I have a Muslim Friend who saved my life! He and his family are as moderate as they come. They are respectful to our laws, and our Religions. They have no issue about converting the world to Islam! So, Dave, in this one respect, you are mis-informed!

howcanweknow
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howcanweknow 08/29/10 - 05:47 pm
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Like millions of other

Like millions of other atheists, Justice for Eva will pass away and be gone from history. The Bible will remain and will continue to influence countless of lives from here forward. Enjoy your words, JFE, while you can. Your time is fleeting. God's word is eternal, and there's not a single thing you can do about it.

howcanweknow
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howcanweknow 08/29/10 - 05:50 pm
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Papersonja, as we've

Papersonja, as we've discussed before, you can't get around the idea that your holy book, the Koran, instructs -- which is supposedly the words of Allah -- adherents to Islam to either convert or kill infidels. It's there in the surahs. I know that you will say that Christians and Jews are considered "people of the book", and that Jesus (PBUH) is honored by Islam. But, you can't get around the fact that Allah OK's killing nonbelievers, while Christianity instructs us to love unbelievers.

There remains a tremendous difference between Islam and Christianity, despite what some uninformed folks here write.

palmetto1007
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palmetto1007 08/29/10 - 05:58 pm
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OMG...now, freedom of

OMG...now, freedom of religion only applies to a select category of religions. Heaven help us all! People are nuts....I hope it's just around here where the level of educational achievement is rock bottom.

palmetto1007
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palmetto1007 08/29/10 - 05:57 pm
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And, everyone needs stop

And, everyone needs stop confusing Christianity with conservatism and lumping Christians and fundamentalist Christians together. There are widely different "brands" of Christianity.

DaveMustaineRules
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DaveMustaineRules 08/29/10 - 06:13 pm
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palmetto1007 - you make the

palmetto1007 - you make the mistake of considering Islam a "religion" in the sense of Christianity, Judaism, etc.

Why should we be tolerant of a so called "religion" which preaches intolerance? Would you be willing to let a child molester live next to you if he was only guilty of "moderate" molestation?

Nativeson1
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Nativeson1 08/29/10 - 06:20 pm
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Well said Matt Alan! Logic

Well said Matt Alan! Logic will always overcome fear and irrational thoughts and behavior over time...Unless you are dealing with unreasonable people; then you just have to move around them... Build the mosque, and let those who oppose hold their nose...

palmetto1007
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palmetto1007 08/29/10 - 06:22 pm
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Well, then, Dave

Well, then, Dave Mustaine....all the southern baptist churches need to go....

dani
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dani 08/29/10 - 07:11 pm
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corgimom..I would not build a

corgimom..I would not build a Christian place of worship next to an abortion clinic, I have too much respect for my fellow Christians.
The Bible says to come out from among them, also says to shake the dust from your feet.

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