What's the big deal about profiling?

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Please help me here, I want to be sure I do not overstep the bounds of profiling.

If I am going deer hunting, how many rabbits and doves do I need to check?

Should I go for a big bass in the middle of a desert?

If the police are looking for an old, fat white guy who robbed a bank, think they will have any luck at a rap concert?

"Profiling" is now a bad word, against the law and just downright wrong -- or so some would have us believe. Well, come on folks, it works!

If you are looking for Middle Eastern terrorists, look for Middle Eastern men and leave 65-year-old Japanese grandmothers alone.

Looking for illegal Mexican border-jumpers? Try checking Mexicans while they have been stopped for some infraction of our laws.

Profiling -- it works.

John Gasko

Martinez

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Nat the Cat
1
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Nat the Cat 05/28/10 - 05:49 pm
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Now Mr. Gasko, you know good

Now Mr. Gasko, you know good and well that if something makes sense like the physical description of a bank robber, that President Obama and his PC Administration are going to tell you that you cannot look for the old, fat, white man that robbed the bank based on his physical description, but if he is carrying the stolen money and an exploding die pack, that's fine.....Oh, wait, then the bank robber would be an old, fat, blue man, and that would be profiling. No arrest there.

Nightwing
0
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Nightwing 05/28/10 - 01:49 am
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Common sense, with the

Common sense, with the government, come on now. We do not want to hurt anyone's feelings here. Only if we can catch you with the bomb then we can stop you, maybe.

NewHere
0
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NewHere 05/28/10 - 05:51 am
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The problem is when you do it

The problem is when you do it without probable cause.

justus4
99
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justus4 05/28/10 - 06:06 am
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The letter is offensive. As
Unpublished

The letter is offensive. As stated in the letter, "racial profiling" has been to court and been ruled ILLEGAL by the highest court in the land. If not for that small fact, the letter may have been fit to print. But to find laws that U don't like and use child-like reasoning to get around them is actually the history of the country. Here is why the letter is foolish: The country prides itself on being law abiding, God-fearing, One Man-One Vote, no person is above the law, and everyone is treated EQUALLY according to the US Constitution. So to have a policy that goes directly against those established principles, puts your entire constitutional framework in jeopardy. If the governed society has spoken, picking only laws that U agree with is reckless & dishonest. U can't yap & yap about a high-minded value system, but behave like N. Korea. U must say that "we'll treat people of color one way and racial profile who we think is a threat" because that policy will only get U so far. The fact is, smart people know that profiling is actually lazy policework. It is used by lazy agencies who don't do their homework and never prevent anything except finding scapegoats. So profiling don't work and the proof is McVeigh, so why do something that do not work?

nofanofobama
6801
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nofanofobama 05/28/10 - 06:13 am
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why is it when the leftist

why is it when the leftist wackos refer to all people who attend the tea party protests as racist and stupid , why is this not profiling.. the answer is obvious ...the liberal philosphy allows only the liberal view to be legitimate..the complete opposite of what the term generally implies..there is no one more intolerant than a selfserving, self proclaiming tolerant liberal...

slippery 25
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slippery 25 05/28/10 - 06:27 am
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I agree! Profiling is used by

I agree! Profiling is used by everyone daily. Common sense is not used by our current goverment ever.

johnston.cliff
2
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johnston.cliff 05/28/10 - 06:40 am
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Common sense? Look how many

Common sense? Look how many posters, all of the same ilk, seem to be looking for that bass in the desert. No, common sense is covered with a huge pile of indoctrination bovine feces and is only recognized by those who didn't succumb to the training. Right now the socialist Dems have the reins in this country and most forms of intelligence are in stasis.

nofanofobama
6801
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nofanofobama 05/28/10 - 07:02 am
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justus--if a white 30 year

justus--if a white 30 year old 6ft blue eyed and blonde haired person, committed a crime would the police start looking in the hood????????
it is not lazy police work it is based on probability..it is scientfic.

seabeau
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seabeau 05/28/10 - 07:07 am
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Israel has been using racial

Israel has been using racial profiling for years at its airports and has never lost a plane since. Since justus4 brings up the legality of racial profiling, liberals believe in a living constitution that can change with the needs of the country. Racial profiling is certainly needed.

reader54
179
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reader54 05/28/10 - 07:17 am
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Sadly, this nation has turned

Sadly, this nation has turned into Fascist Police State. Profiling is one of the tools used to try and identify law breakers but creates fear and intimidation to the innocent. If you are driving late at night, you are profiled for DUI and anything else that may be on the mind of a bored, ambitious LEO. The same holds true with driving cross-country and being pulled over b/c you are several states away from where your vehicle is tagged. You are detained on the side of the road and asked for consent to have your vehicle searched. If you refuse, they call in a canine unit, and search your vehicle anyways. I'm talking about detaining people for hours on the side of the highway b/c you are "profiled" a drug runner. This concept is not legal so to get around the illegality part, they merely devise a "pretext" for pulling you over in the first place. They will use something such as "hugging the center lane", swerving, no blinker, etc. as an excuse to pull you over and then begin their "fishing expedition". I-10 and I-95 are notorius for this and you will see grandma & pa's RV pulled over and being searched. I had this happen to me in 1992, on I-10 in Louisiana, and had to go through an ordeal of 2.5 hrs. A cop followed me for 12-15 miles and then hit his blue light and told me that I had been speeding. Folks, when a cop is tailgating me, I surely don't speed. The truckers called Loiusiana the "communist state" in those days b/c of that practice. After I told them that I had nothing to hide and they were welcome to search the interior and my luggage but that I was reluctant of signing a consent form. Well, they interpreted that as refusal to consent and called in the canine unit. A mongrel dog sniffed around my vehicle and looked at them and they told me that the dog had given three indications of detection!!! The first thing that they did was raise my hatchback and start dismantling my interior roof. This went on for abourt 3 hrs. to no avail. The cop just handed me my drivers license and told me to get out of there. Now, that was 18 yrs. ago and things have just gotten worse. Profiling creates more problems than it solves.

Techfan
6461
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Techfan 05/28/10 - 07:19 am
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"Looking for illegal Mexican

"Looking for illegal Mexican border-jumpers? Try checking Mexicans while they have been stopped for some infraction of our laws." Let me guess John, you can tell they are Mexicans, and not American citizens of some Spanish speaking ancestry, just by looking at them. I have a feeling that if we were looking for Canadian and Western European illegals, and forced every caucasian to prove they were citizens at every traffic stop, John and his ilk would be screaming that our freedom is gone and the government is running roughshod over the Constitution.

Rhetor
995
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Rhetor 05/28/10 - 07:27 am
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Police are allowed to stop

Police are allowed to stop people who match the description of a bank robber. That's probable cause, it's not profiling, and it's not a problem. One thing they can't do is to stop people b/c they look Mexican. Many millions of Hispanics live in our country, especially the Southwest, because their families lived in the Southwest during the Mexican War. Many of these families have lived in what is now the Southwestern US for centuries. Many of them have now moved to other parts of the country. Many Hispanics have immigrated here legally. Also, our country has a long-standing history of detaining or arresting African Americans because of their race--the infamous "driving while black" charge. Those are the reasons that decent people are against racial profiling.

southernguy08
499
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southernguy08 05/28/10 - 07:36 am
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I'm pretty sure the people
Unpublished

I'm pretty sure the people thumbing their noses at our immigration laws and border are folks with names like Juan, Carlos, Paco, Consuela, and Rosa. Therefore THESE are the people we should be looking for. Just like Islamic terrorists have names like Abdul, Mohammed, and Rashid. When you are having problems with foxes in your henhouse, you don't go looking for deer. I know that isn't PC and couldn't care less. These people are violating our laws. OBAMA AND CONGRESS, DO YOUR JOB!! FINISH THE WALL AND GUARD IT!! THE VOTERS ARE WATCHING AND YOU CAN BE VOTED OUT!!

Rhetor
995
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Rhetor 05/28/10 - 07:40 am
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Well, Southernguy, are you

Well, Southernguy, are you willing for innocent people to get caught up in the fishing net? Obviously, you are. I suspect that the only reason you feel that way is that people in your own ethnic group, whatever that is, are not among the people being targeted. Millions of Hispanics and Arab-Americans are here legally, abide by the law, and live peaceful lives. They have a right to be left alone.

southernguy08
499
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southernguy08 05/28/10 - 07:41 am
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I'm just curious, the folks
Unpublished

I'm just curious, the folks who are against the Arizona law, what is YOUR solution, besides giving all illegals amnesty? And READER, you have no idea what a truly fascist nation is like, but funny how you use this term with Obama as head of the country. I thought he was supposed to be "change we can believe in?"

southernguy08
499
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southernguy08 05/28/10 - 07:43 am
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RHETOR, like most libs, you
Unpublished

RHETOR, like most libs, you gripe about something but offer no viable alternative. What is YOUR idea. Ignoring the problem won't make it go away. By the way, I'm Irish-American, and have a "No Irish Need Apply" sign in my study. Yeah, my people felt discrimination too, but I still think we have to draw the line somewhere.

55 F-100
1
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55 F-100 05/28/10 - 07:56 am
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When the law is broken, the

When the law is broken, the LEO's attention is drawn to the ilk who historically in the LEO's experience have been found guilty of committing that crime. If the Arizona law addressess illegal aliens and Arizona is bordered by Mexico, then even the least intelligent of all of the critics can deduce that the illegal alien will most probably be a Mexican......and if they are decorated with gang tats, then that is what is known as a "two-fer". Arrest them, throw their worthless behinds in a holding pen, and when Prezbhojangles does not let I.C.E. deport them, let each passing day educate the American citizens as to what an enemy of the U.S.A. that the teleprompter-reading empty suit in the oval office really is.

lsmith
105
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lsmith 05/28/10 - 08:06 am
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Interesting: Have you noticed
Unpublished

Interesting: Have you noticed that most news outlets have begun reporting on robberies, rapes, murders and other violent crimes giving descriptions down the type shoes they're wearing but DO NOT mention race? BREAKING NEWS Police are looking for a man suspected of robbing the first national bank. He's described as being 45 years old, approx 150 pounds, bald headed, driving a red and white ford taurus and headed west on gordon highway. The car tag was blah blah. NOW, why wouldn't it be kinda important to know if the suspect was caucasion or black? Profiling politics have been taken way too far. I could care less about the sensitivities of people when looking for criminals. Those who profess righteous indignation over profiling need to get a grip on what's important.

NoCatchyName
30
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NoCatchyName 05/28/10 - 08:22 am
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Profiling is one of those

Profiling is one of those words whose meaning is in the process of being stolen by a hot button issue. It is similar to the word gay which used to mean happy and the word [filtered word] which used to mean a bundle of sticks before being used in England to refer to cigarettes. Any time the word profiling is used today certain folk are going to immediately get their hackles up because what they hear is “racial profiling”.

Profiling is the process of determining certain set of unknown data by reference to a set of known data using the relationships between the two sets of data. In mathematics it is known as extrapolation. It works quite well. Does profiling work in law enforcement? Of course it does. The problem is that profiling using race has one criteria has been ruled unconstitutional by the courts. This came about because of the use of the tactic by some law enforcement officers to discriminate, primarily against blacks, in instances such as: stopping a black man who is walking through a white neighborhood or stopping a person for “driving while black”. This sort of profiling can be clearly wrong and the courts have addressed it.

Making it illegal to use race as one of the criteria for profiling for crime does have its drawbacks, however. As pointed out above elderly white ladies in wheelchairs are much less prone to become terrorists than are young men of middle eastern appearance. The security agent who checked in Muhammed Atta, the leader of the September 11 terrorist attacks, and a companion, said in a CNN interview that looking at the pair his first reaction was to think, "If this doesn't look like two Arab terrorists, I've never seen two Arab terrorists." But he immediately felt guilty, and had no legal grounds to search on the basis of their suspicious appearance had he wished to. Similarly, along the border with Mexico it would be quite reasonable, but illegal to profile for illegal aliens using a Latino appearance as one of the criteria.

In America we sometimes expose ourselves to a little more danger in order to protect the freedoms that most of us enjoy. The exclusion of the use of race in profiling is one of these situations. We would be safer if it were allowed, but there is so much of a probability that it would be used to degrade the freedoms of a specific segment of the population that he courts have prohibited it.

deportem
94
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deportem 05/28/10 - 08:44 am
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If you are driving and get

If you are driving and get stopped by a cop, you are required to show your driver's license, insurance card, and registration. If you have a CWP and are carrying, you must show the officer your CWP card. It doesn't matter if you are black, white, yellow, or purple!

If you are speeding, weaving, etc. and are stopped, that is not profiling.

On the other hand, I have been stopped in years gone by because of my then long hair, beard, and the wearing of an army field jacket!

In SC, some small town cops target out of state tags. They know you won't come back to fight the ticket.

ohhsweetconcord
3
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ohhsweetconcord 05/28/10 - 08:57 am
0
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This is exactly why this law

This is exactly why this law is going to be a massive screw up. Mr. Rasko would condone racism, especially because it works.

nofanofobama
6801
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nofanofobama 05/28/10 - 09:04 am
0
0
if the leaders of our country

if the leaders of our country were not LAW BREAKERS we would not be talking about profiling of illegals in AZ or the AZ law. what of the rights of those who live legally along the border that are being invaded.. our so called leaders OBAMA and others,, both side of the aisle ought to be impeached.. they have BROKEN their oath to uphold the constitution and the laws of the land..they are not allowed to cherry pick and , the constitution allows a remendy for laws if they desire to change them. if you are a leader of this country and you are not enforcing our laws you are a LAWBREAKER.. .on the top of the priority list for any govt. is protection of ITS citizens and the borders of its country..til then dont complain about occasional profiling.. because its you libs that make the enviroment for profiling neccessary by selective law enforcement. seal the borders. no cheap labor for business etc.. .enforce all current laws now...................

ohhsweetconcord
3
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ohhsweetconcord 05/28/10 - 09:08 am
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Nofan, Obama is enforcing

Nofan, Obama is enforcing laws. He deported 400,000 illegeal immigrants last year. He's sending1,200 more border agents with $500 million in funding.

lsmith
105
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lsmith 05/28/10 - 09:23 am
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nocatchyname: In my opinion
Unpublished

nocatchyname: In my opinion there's not one innocent American life worth sacrificing to preserve someone's sensitivities for being requested to identify yourself. Common sense has to prevail. This country needs to show the same tenacity to protecting Americans at home as we routinely do abroad and in combat zones.
I'm not one who likes to give up my privacy but I don't mind at all identifying myself while law enforcement is pursuing bad guys. The America today is not the one our forefathers forsaw, it's become a very dangerous place to live and it's getting worse.
Recently it was divulged that over one hundred somalians were "muled" over the Mexican border and a good many were admitted to be dangerous and followers of muslim extremes. Our porous border has now caught the eye of terrorists who have been failing to get here through an airport. The cat's out of the bag now on the Mexican corridor and because of poltical correctness and liberal power building nothing is going to be done about it. There are some really dire days ahead.

deportem
94
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deportem 05/28/10 - 09:30 am
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Obama did not personally

Obama did not personally deport one Illegal Alien! While Obama was busy playing the fiddle, another million Illegal Aliens, terrorists, drug smugglers, etc probably walked across the borber.
If anything, B. Hussein Obama is attemping to muzzle any inforcement of the Federal Immigration Laws as well as openly criticizing the Arizona Law.
The 1,200 troops he MAY send are just a drop in the bucket. Arizona asked for 30,000! Obama is just paying lip service to the 70-80% of Americans that want the Mexican Border SEALED TIGHT!!!

Here's a suggestion for the pres. Ask for American Citizen volunteer snipers to take out armed drug smugglers. These are jobs Americans would gladly do! And unlike the Tennessee Guard, we won't retreat in the face of armed invaders.
A little air cover would be appreciated, though.

apex24
0
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apex24 05/28/10 - 09:34 am
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Mr. Gasko, the reason

Mr. Gasko, the reason Liberals and minorities declare you can't profile is the same reason you can't say that blacks commit 85% of armed robberies, it's the truth.

afadel
474
Points
afadel 05/28/10 - 09:43 am
0
0
The problem with

The problem with racial/ethnic/religious profiling is that it wastes limited police resources on investigating the innocent majority of a the group which fits the profile.

In addition, some police officers' actions will mirror prejudices against the profiled group, and grievous abuses will occur. For example, in Chicago, a policeman who learned torture techniques while serving in Vietnam tortured over 100 African-Americans to coerce false confessions.

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/5/24/trial_begins_for_ex_chicago_police

Finally, it alienates the population of the profiled group. If you treat innocent members of group x to be criminals, eventually you will create those criminals.

Would you not rather have your local police preventing domestic violence, directing traffic, apprehending violent offenders, etc than deporting an undocumented dishwasher who was riding in a car involved in an accident?

Also, read what Cobb County (suburban Atlanta) police are doing under 287(g), the program which involves local police in immigration:

http://www.acluga.org/287gReport.pdf

corgimom
30966
Points
corgimom 05/28/10 - 10:02 am
0
0
"The same holds true with

"The same holds true with driving cross-country and being pulled over b/c you are several states away from where your vehicle is tagged."

I have lived all over the US, I have travelled all over the US with a car tagged in a different state, and I have never been asked to have my car searched.

However, if I were to be asked, I would immediately say yes, because I am not a criminal and do not carry illegal items in my car.

I've been profiled. My son has been profiled. Why? Because we were one of the very few white people living in a overwhelmingly black project. And it was the police officer's experience that the probability of a white person there to buy drugs was very high.

I didn't mind, I wasn't doing anything wrong.

But it immensely angers me that I am consistently pulled out of line at an airport and body searched, in order to appease a bunch of PC dimwits, so that they can't be accused of "profiling".

And reader54- "but that I was reluctant of signing a consent form. Well, they interpreted that as refusal to consent "

They did not "interpret" that as a refusal, that IS a refusal. Period.

corgimom
30966
Points
corgimom 05/28/10 - 10:03 am
0
0
"In addition, some police

"In addition, some police officers' actions will mirror prejudices against the profiled group, and grievous abuses will occur. For example, in Chicago, a policeman who learned torture techniques while serving in Vietnam tortured over 100 African-Americans to coerce false confessions. "

Yep, there were a whole lot of black Vietnamese in Viet Nam in those days. *snort*

Chillen
17
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Chillen 05/28/10 - 10:13 am
0
0
I'm hopping on a plane for

I'm hopping on a plane for vacation this weekend. I hope the airport security guards profile and I plan to look around for potential suspects myself. Non-PC but so what? Just the facts folks. Survival of the fittest.

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