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Thank the Founding Fathers for creating a government that makes “no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”

Thank the U.S. Supreme Court for upholding those ideals recently by ruling city and town councils can open meetings with a prayer, even if those prayers are predominantly Christian.

The 5-4 decision ruled that the town of Greece, N.Y., did not run afoul of the law by allowing chaplains to given opening prayers. The town was sued by two residents who said the prayers ran afoul of the First Amendment’s prohibition of government establishment of religion.

Though almost all of the opening prayers were given by Christian clergymen, town officials said the prayers were open to members of all faiths, including atheists.

“The prayer opportunity is evaluated against the backdrop of a historical practice showing that prayer has become part of the Nation’s heritage and tradition,” the majority wrote in the opinion.

Bottom line: The Constitution gives Americans the freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.

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Bodhisattva
6474
Points
Bodhisattva 05/16/14 - 07:00 am
5
9
Now let's see if they allow
Unpublished

Now let's see if they allow any and all religions the same right to open government meetings.

hare kṛṣṇa hare kṛṣṇa
kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa hare hare
hare rāma hare rāma
rāma rāma hare hare

Mighty Brighid, keeper of the flame,
blazing in the darkness of winter.
O goddess, we honor you, bringer of light,
healer, exalted one.
Bless us now, hearth mother,
that we may be as fruitful as the soil itself,
and our lives abundant and fertile.

I am a link in Lord Buddha’s golden chain of love that stretches around the world.
I must keep my link bright and strong.
I will try to be kind and gentle to every living thing, and protect all who are weaker than myself.
I will try to think pure and beautiful thoughts, to say pure and beautiful words, and to do pure and beautiful deeds, knowing that on what I do now depends my happiness and misery.
May every link in Lord Buddha’s golden chain of love become bright and strong and may we all attain perfect peace

And now, Grandfather, I ask you to bless the white man.
He needs your wisdom, your guidance.
You see, for so long he has tried to destroy my people,
and only feels comfortable when given power.
Bless them, show them the peace we understand;
teach them humility.
For I fear they will someday destroy themselves and their children
as they have done so Mother Earth.
I plead, I cry, after all, they are my brothers ...

Bizkit
33071
Points
Bizkit 05/16/14 - 07:19 am
9
2
Yes Native Americans,

Yes Native Americans, Buddhist, Hindu's, Celts, and even muslims can pray if they like. Muslims pray five times a day every day-so that is your physician, teacher, coworker, etc. who takes time at work or where ever to pray every day. I don't hear people raising holy hell that muslims are praying while at work-nor should anyone. Well it is like the abortion argument in that people argue it is settled cause the SCOTUS has ruled-so now I guess prayer is settled too.

ymnbde
10040
Points
ymnbde 05/16/14 - 07:26 am
5
1
but you can't get away from government

jack can slip out the back and leave his family
stan can make a little plan and leave his spouse
gus can hop on the bus and leave his town
and there must be 50 ways to leave your lover
but there is no, not one iota, of freedom from government
you just can't get yourself free
but religion? religion is easy. It allows an infinite number of ways
to get yourself free
and prayer can be a synchronization with the will and grace of God
or it can just be a string of words with no more meaning than a
Paul Simon song
it's all up to you... don't try to make others think like you
and don't demean those different from you, as bod often does, and did, above
junior nazis worship government

deestafford
28775
Points
deestafford 05/16/14 - 07:33 am
7
4
This push to take religion from public life is completely...

This push to take religion from public life is completely against what the Founders intended and is just another example of how their are forces, and yes, some of them have evil intentions and are themselves evil, which want to destroy everything America has stood for since its beginning.

Those who push this agenda or either totally ignorant of what the Founders intended or do know and are part of many groups who do not like America and believe it has been an illegitimate country from its beginning and are out to fundamentally correct that.

The government is complicit in this push when it allows a group called Military for Freedom From Religion to have an office in the pentagon and be consulted on matters of religion in the military.

Make no mistake. America's and foundation are under assault from forces who want to destroy our values and culture. Sadly, these forces have some willing ignorant travellers who go along with them under the misguided banner of tolerance.

Darby
27005
Points
Darby 05/16/14 - 11:30 am
9
2
"Now let's see if they allow

any and all religions the same right to open government meetings.

hare kṛṣṇa hare kṛṣṇa
kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa hare hare
hare rāma hare rāma
rāma rāma hare hare"
.
Guess you weren't paying attention, Bod, that's EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID DO!

You might want to go back and re-read the decision!

Correction, go back and READ the decision. You obviously didn't take the time before.

Darby
27005
Points
Darby 05/16/14 - 11:32 am
6
1
It was a sad, sad day

for the secular warriors.

Pond Life
17682
Points
Pond Life 05/16/14 - 02:37 pm
6
2
Darby, Bodhistechfan can't be
Unpublished

Darby, Bodhistechfan can't be bothered with facts.

Darby
27005
Points
Darby 05/16/14 - 04:30 pm
7
1
"Darby, Bodhistechfan can't be bothered with facts."

That's true of course, PL, but it's OK because to be accepted and confirmed as a true liberal/socialist/progressive, you only need to mean well and have good intentions as determined by others of your clan.

To be validated as a conservative, you must produce results!

Darby
27005
Points
Darby 05/16/14 - 04:34 pm
6
0
"I plead, I cry, after all, they are my brothers ..."

Can you even imagine just how far we could go down life's road together if only there was one word of sincerity in that statement.

dahreese
4743
Points
dahreese 05/16/14 - 05:10 pm
0
0
"Bottom line, the
Unpublished

"Bottom line, the Constitution gives Americans the freedom of religion not the freedom from religion."

If that is the case, just what religion does the Constitution require and exactly where is it found in the Constitution that a religion is required?

This is just some more writing off the cuff without any real thought to what is being said and how to say it.

dahreese
4743
Points
dahreese 05/16/14 - 05:16 pm
0
0
"Can you imagine just how far
Unpublished

"Can you imagine just how far we could go down life's road together if there was one word of sincerity in that statement."

Why don't you lead the way.

OJP
6951
Points
OJP 05/16/14 - 08:37 pm
1
1
Yes it does.

The Free Exercise Clause protects freedom of religion. The Establishment Clause protects freedom from religion.

Our Founders knew religion and government don't mix well. It shouldn't be controversial.

I'm sure ACES doesn't want Islam injected into American government...

OJP
6951
Points
OJP 05/16/14 - 08:42 pm
0
1
@Bod

This is how Christians actually respond when it's anything other than Christianity:

Hindu Prayer in Senate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XiizB9Lkqk&app=desktop

Darby
27005
Points
Darby 05/16/14 - 09:34 pm
3
0
"Establishment Clause protects freedom from religion."

No, not so! The establishment clause protects the people from a government sponsored religion as was common in England at the time Americans fought and died to establish a government "Of the people, by the people and for the people."

Nothing anywhere in the Constitution that says (or even implies) that a prayer can't be said on government (read public) property.

OJP
6951
Points
OJP 05/16/14 - 10:15 pm
0
1
@Darby

The ACES stated that the Constitution does not protect freedom from religion. That is wrong. And allowing prayer in public doesn't mean that the Establishment Clause has been breached (such prayers are only allowed because they are tradition).

deestafford
28775
Points
deestafford 05/16/14 - 11:38 pm
2
0
A little known fact is that the Founders...

A little known fact is that the Founders intended for the First Amendment to allow states to establish state religions. That is why the restriction is on Congress and not government.

If one looks at the original constitutions of the states one would read where most of the states include Christianity as part of the bedrock principles of the state. Christianity was recognized as the religion for most of the states.

If the Founders had wish the "governments" to restrict their involvement in religion they would have said "governments could not restrict the free exercise'' but they specifically put the restriction on "Congress". It's amazing how little many in the judicial and legislative branches as well as the general public are so ignorant as to the Founding and the intent of the Founders. Laziness and lack of research of original source documents is bypassed for the easier "research" of reading heresay from "history" being passed from one expert to another to the reader.

corgimom
34237
Points
corgimom 05/17/14 - 08:54 am
0
1
It's a little-known fact

It's a little-known fact because it's not true, Dee Stafford.

They didn't want ANY state or government religion, period.

corgimom
34237
Points
corgimom 05/17/14 - 08:55 am
0
1
If you know your American

If you know your American history, you know that prior to the establishment of the 13 states, there had already been a lot of religious discrimination and problems, so they didn't want ANY official religion.

corgimom
34237
Points
corgimom 05/17/14 - 08:57 am
0
1
And it is also untrue that

And it is also untrue that the Pilgrims came here for "religious freedom"- they came here for land and wealth, their religious beliefs were just as restrictive as what they left behind.

cynic728
2
Points
cynic728 05/17/14 - 10:35 am
0
0
A little known fact is...

Sorry, corgimom, Dee Stafford is right:

Freedom of religion does not require that the state be secular. A state "may declare an official religion," the USCIRF report explains, "provided that basic rights, including the individual right to freedom of thought, conscience, and religion or belief, are respected for all without discrimination." If jobs or government benefits are denied to the adherents of a particular belief, then religious liberty has been violated.

Darby
27005
Points
Darby 05/17/14 - 10:56 am
1
0
"(such prayers are only allowed because they are tradition)."

And now you're gonna tell us where that statement is codified in law.

Right????

edcushman
7930
Points
edcushman 05/17/14 - 01:21 pm
1
0
"And it is also untrue that
Unpublished

"And it is also untrue that the Pilgrims came here for "religious freedom"
corigmom, way to go. You and others are following the orders of the wanta be queen when she said "we are going to change history". But it will not work on us because we know lies when we see them.

KasparHauser
364
Points
KasparHauser 05/23/14 - 11:18 am
0
0
The Distorting Lens of Bigotry...
Unpublished

"The Constitution gives Americans the freedom of religion, not freedom from religion."

What nonsense! The Constitution gives us freedom FROM religion, as in not being forced to belong to an official state church, not being forced to worship the majority's comic book god, and not being required to contribute to a majority-sponsored religion or even one of a list of majority sponsored religions (ala some European states).

That the AC staff would once again distort this Reality-based implementation of this Amendment is just another manifestation of their fanaticism and dedication to continue making the same mistakes as their 'revered' ancestors.

KasparHauser
364
Points
KasparHauser 05/23/14 - 11:20 am
0
0
The Distorting Lens of Bigotry...
Unpublished

"The Constitution gives Americans the freedom of religion, not freedom from religion."

What nonsense! The Constitution gives us freedom FROM religion, as in not being forced to belong to an official state church, not being forced to worship the majority's comic book god, and not being required to contribute to a majority-sponsored religion or even one of a list of majority sponsored religions (ala some European states).

That the AC staff would once again distort this Reality-based implementation of this Amendment is just another manifestation of their fanaticism and dedication to continue making the same mistakes as their 'revered' ancestors.

It also demonstrates their knee-jerk adoption of any Inside the Bubble/Hive Talking Point.

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