Raising the ceiling

Boosting debt limit for umpteenth time isn't fiscally sane

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It’s about time someone started talking tough about America’s debt ceiling. Here’s what one prominent politician had to say:




“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. government can’t pay its own bills. ... I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit.”

Oops. Sorry, that quote isn’t from 2013. It’s from 2006.

And it’s from then-U.S. Sen. Barack Obama.

Of course now, since he’s ascended to the presidency, there’s no more “leadership failure” in his eyes. His debt narrative has changed.

Now he’s telling anyone who cares to listen that “raising the debt ceiling, which has been done over a hundred times, does not increase our debt.”

“You know,” wisecracked comedian Jay Leno in response, “like raising the speed limit does not increase speed.”

Translate the president’s way of thinking to your household budgeting. Would, say, raising the limits on your credit cards encourage you to be more frugal or more profligate?

If America has raised the debt ceiling “over a hundred times,” as the president asserts, doesn’t it follow – hasn’t it followed – that America’s debt also has increased?

And doesn’t debt rise because you spend and borrow more?

No matter. The president’s message is clear: Just let us keep spending, taxpayer.

It’s not the least bit unreasonable to expect our government to spend less. All that

taxing and spending is returning – again – to haunt us. Raising the debt ceiling to meet our growing obligations is kicking an increasingly costly can down the road.

Some people say the president’s stance doesn’t go far enough. Henry J. Aaron, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, urged Obama in a Sept. 29 New York Times op-ed simply to ignore the debt ceiling.

Heaven knows Congress has. Too many of its members keep voting through spending bill after spending bill like – well, we don’t want to use the clichéd comparison of drunken sailors. It does a disservice to drunken sailors. At least the sailors stop spending when they run out of money – and it’s usually their own!

Not Congress. Members keep burning through our money, then when the spending approaches the always-looming debt ceiling, they feign shock.

We’re mortified.

A 2011 study from the Bank for International Settlements found that “beyond a certain level, debt is bad for growth.” For government debt, the study’s authors calculated that level at 85 percent of a nation’s gross domestic product. The United States is wheezing toward $17 trillion in debt – 109 percent of GDP.

U.S. Rep. Tom Price of Georgia said this a couple of years ago regarding the debt ceiling, and it still holds: “Democrats seem to think that getting our fiscal house in order ought to be someone else’s problem for another time. That is the same attitude that got us into this mess, and it is unacceptable to the American people.”

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deestafford
49090
Points
deestafford 10/06/13 - 12:27 am
10
7
One must understand that Obama cares more about his

left wing ideology and his promise to "fundamental transform America" than he does about anything else. This is a man on a mission to destroy our country as it was designed by the Founders because he does not believe the foundation, principles, and values upon which America was founded.

Nothing, nothing in his back ground would suggest otherwise. As a matter of fact, "his" writings of his two books show he is a destructive force as far as the bedrock of America is concerned.

The evilness of this man will not be readily apparent for years, but one day it will come to light.

GACopprhed
2136
Points
GACopprhed 10/06/13 - 02:11 am
9
14
I love the absolutes,
Unpublished

I love the absolutes, deestafford. He's evil, and wants to destroy the country. I guess that's the agenda of all Democrats. The Republican mantra of no taxes couldn't be a problem, though. As I recall, it was the Republican Congress that pushed through a $1,000,000,000 tax cut for the top 1% and then went by the mantra 'deficit's don't matter". They lied to the world to begin a war that cost billions each month and has taken forever to get us out of, while also agreeing to "nation-build" and not accounting for where millions disappeared to. They failed to see the signs of a looming recession, saying up til the total collapse, 'the economy is strong". Of course NONE of this has contributed to the increase in our deficit, nor has what had to be spent to correct the Republican failures which caused our Recession. Republicans have never used 'executive privilege', and they have been lily white, Iran-Contra never happened, Watergate never happened, and Ronnie Raygun never raised taxes 11 times. We definitely know that Republicans are the party of the poor, the disadvantaged, and the unemployed, they have been marvelous stewards of our national infrastructure, and have never run someone like that horrible philanderer Bill Clinton. The humorous thing is, a Democrat balanced our budget, left a surplus, and the nation still elected the Republicans to spend it all away. Well, spend you did, and now you don't want to pay it back. Keep it up, Dems will be in power a loooong time thanks to your political games.

specsta
9041
Points
specsta 10/06/13 - 02:42 am
9
11
Spend Less On The Greedy and More On The Needy

Yes, the government should spend less.

Let's start with dollars already flushed down the toilet for the new F-35 Joint Strike Fighter jet, to the tune of $400,000,000,000.

Someone also needs to be held accountable for the $7,000,000,000 in military equipment that was shredded into scrap-yard junk in Afghanistan. More wasted taxpayer dollars.

Then let's end corporate welfare for multi-billion-dollar companies like Exxon Mobile and General Electric and Citigroup - welfare that amounts to over $155,000,000,000 for companies that already produce soaring profits.

While we're at it, let's shut down the prison-for-profit scam that encourages the justice system to lock people up for non-violent offenses. It costs more for the government to incarcerate a human being than to educate them with a college degree. What would this country be like, if we focused on education and not incarceration? Like night and day, would be the difference.

Then let's look at public money spent by law enforcement to entice citizens to COMMIT crimes where no crimes existed before - such as prostitution stings, stolen property stings or internet crimes stings. This goes hand-in-hand with the prison-for-profit scam.

Yet, no one complains about trillions of dollars being sent straight down the sewer pipe courtesy of the feds, state and local governments - what we hear about is some person who is living on $4.50 a day in food stamps wrecking the system. Or some single mother trying to find a roof over her head, "scamming" the government. Or God forbid that some homeless person try to find shelter in an foreclosed home - that action requires the SWAT team to smoke the person out.

What we have here in this country is government waste, fraud and disrespect for the citizens - in order to glorify corporations, the military-industrial complex and to expand the police state.

This is done relatively easy by demonizing those who have no voice or power - by blaming those who are hungry, sick, poor, homeless, disabled, jobless, etc. for all of the problems in this country and blaming them for the economic state of the government.

The real criminals continue to flourish and pocket billion dollar gains - while the common man and woman continue to suffer under the oppression of poverty and human rights violations.

Let's put the blame for the debt in this country where it belongs - right in the pocket of the greedy cabals who destroy lives and squash our liberties and freedoms.

JimS
166
Points
JimS 10/06/13 - 05:40 am
3
7
Talking Bout Paying the Debts, from before 9/11 and well after!!
Unpublished

The monies budgeted, already long term insufficient, are mostly borrowed, that's what deficits, and under funding, cause!! Which in turn cause more costly problems!!

"The American people will not be extorted by Tea Party anarchists."
coup d'état - noun: a sudden attempt by a small group of people to take over the government usually through violence {sometimes and this isn't sudden, in this country, once U.S., shirking the peoples responsibility, knowing the military, nor the huge majority of the people, will not join and would fight any armed civilian insurrection, by collapsing the treasury to rebuild a private corporate takeover for profit}

America's Free War's and No Sacrifice, of the present generations by those served and passing costs onto the next while ignoring or giving lip service on the issues of the veterans' from, DeJa-Vu all over again!!

"If military action is worth our troops' blood, it should be worth our treasure, too" "not just in the abstract, but in the form of a specific ante by every American." -Andrew Rosenthal 10 Feb. 2013

Something never mentioned, in talks about government spending needs, by those that did and those that fully supported the doing and especially as to the wealthy tax cuts. The rubber stamping rapidly rising deficits started Before 9/11 and then these wars while continuing with right up to the collapsed economy and change in congress!!

RM: "We got a huge round of tax cuts in this country a few weeks before 9/11. Once 9/11 happened and we invaded Afghanistan, we kept the tax cuts anyway. How did we think we were going to pay for that war? Did we think it was free? Then, when we started a second simultaneous war in another country, we gave ourselves a second huge round of tax cuts. After that second war started. The wars, I guess, we thought would be free, don`t worry about it, civilians. Go about your business." 23 May 2013

"12 years also is a long time. We now have a lifetime responsibility to a generation of service members, veterans and their families." Dr. Jonathan Woodson 11 Sep. 2013: With 9/11 Came Lifetime Responsibility

Deficits, especially huge, means the costs of wars and long term results from are passed on to later generations, present is all borrowed, DeJa-Vu all over again!!

GlobalResearch: "US wars in Afghanistan, Iraq to cost $6 trillion"
Which gave rapid rise and far reaching spread of the al Qaeda ideology practices, not far removed from the modern day so called christian and jewish ideologies spoken and practiced!

"Why in 2009 were we still using paper?" VA Assistant Secretary Tommy Sowers "When we came in, there was no plan to change that; we've been operating on a six month wait for over a decade." 27 March 2013

WHY? GOOD QUESTION THOSE SERVED SHOULD ANSWER!

ProPublica and The Seattle Times Nov. 9, 2012 - Lost to History: Missing War Records Complicate Benefit Claims by Iraq, Afghanistan Veterans
"DeLara's case is part of a much larger problem that has plagued the U.S. military since the 1990 Gulf War: a failure to create and maintain the types of field records that have documented American conflicts since the Revolutionary War."

"You cannot escape the responsibility of tomorrow by evading it today." - Abraham Lincoln

USN All Shore '67-'71 GMG3 Vietnam In Country '70-'71

carcraft
37366
Points
carcraft 10/06/13 - 07:32 am
8
1
Or we could now start with

Or we could now start with entitlements that equal the entire cost of funding the military!

carcraft
37366
Points
carcraft 10/06/13 - 07:32 am
6
1
Or we could now start with

Or we could now start with entitlements that equal the entire cost of funding the military!

carcraft
37366
Points
carcraft 10/06/13 - 07:39 am
8
1
Gee wasn't it Obama who said

Gee wasn't it Obama who said the constitution was fundamentally flawed? A list of inhabitions rather than proscriptions. John L
Kennedy clearly under American individual responsibility, "Ask not what your country can do for you.."! Obama, your government will give you health care, food stamps, etc. Etc.etc!

Humble Angela
41338
Points
Humble Angela 10/06/13 - 07:57 am
12
3
"They lied to the world to
Unpublished

"They lied to the world to begin a war that cost billions each month and has taken forever to get us out of, while also agreeing to "nation-build" and not accounting for where millions disappeared to. "

Republicans did? Really?

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." --Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." --Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." Letter to President Clinton, signed by: -- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies." -- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." Letter to President Bush, Signed by: -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them." -- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." -- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" -- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." -- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." -- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..." -- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

Humble Angela
41338
Points
Humble Angela 10/06/13 - 07:58 am
12
2
Just the Republicans....talk
Unpublished

Just the Republicans....talk about absolutes. sheesh

And by the way, the tax cut they "pushed through" (voted for) was for ALL working Americans, not just the upper 1%, but you can continue to say that, and I'm sure people will believe you.

Humble Angela
41338
Points
Humble Angela 10/06/13 - 08:00 am
12
4
"Spend Less On The Greedy and
Unpublished

"Spend Less On The Greedy and More On The Needy"

Why do liberals think it's greedy for one to want to keep what they earned, but NOT greedy to want to take what someone earned away from them?

Humble Angela
41338
Points
Humble Angela 10/06/13 - 08:10 am
10
5
InChristLove
22491
Points
InChristLove 10/06/13 - 08:18 am
6
3
HA, thanks. You said it so

HA, thanks. You said it so much better than I.

As for "Someone also needs to be held accountable for the $7,000,000,000 in military equipment that was shredded into scrap-yard junk in Afghanistan. More wasted taxpayer dollars."

It was deemed more expensive (and a waste of taxpayer dollars) to try and ship this equipment back than to dismantle it. So actually they were being accountable.

nocnoc
72846
Points
nocnoc 10/06/13 - 08:22 am
9
1
A Fairy Tale come to life.

America has been giving and giving and giving without any results, or expectations from those receiving the $$$$.

America has been the Worlds Policeman and in a war every few years and running up bigger deficits every year for 238 years. All without any $$$$ return on $$$$ investment.

Since the early 1960's, people & leaders have been warning we can't keep just tossing $$$$ at our social problems without any expectations of improvement from those getting the $$$$.

Unlike the Pied Piper story
America has paid to have the tune played,
But America did not demand results,
and now it is time to pay the Piper.

and much just like the Pied Piper story
it will be the children that are taken
to pay the piper.

Because we left them them owing the $$$.

America cannot afford to be #1,
if we have hock our children's future
and allow other countries to own more of us
than we own of ourselves.

ymnbde
14877
Points
ymnbde 10/06/13 - 08:29 am
11
2
17 trillion is an absolute

it's an evil evil number
and one day we'll have a President and Congress
smart enough to lower it to something reasonable
but for now we're stuck with Democrats
who used the IRS to steal an election
and malign the only people
who can reduce the debt
but for now it should shut down the government
so we can see what's in it
hey copperhead! answer a question
how can the reduction of
the ratio between patients and doctors
do no harm?

Humble Angela
41338
Points
Humble Angela 10/06/13 - 08:33 am
5
2
ymbde....he CAN'T answer.
Unpublished

ymbde....he CAN'T answer.

chascushman
6653
Points
chascushman 10/06/13 - 08:44 am
8
4
He's evil, and wants to
Unpublished

He's evil, and wants to destroy the country."
GACop, you finally said something I agree with. He is PURE EVIL. He hates everything this country was based on. He believes that this country became rich by stealing from poor countries of color. READ HIS BOOKS. He had mental issues when he was kid. If you notice in most of his photo shots behind him you see 95% blacks and women. He dislikes most white men. He is one RACIST S*B.

chascushman
6653
Points
chascushman 10/06/13 - 08:52 am
6
3
"It costs more for the
Unpublished

"It costs more for the government to incarcerate a human being than to educate them with a college degree."
specsta, would please take a look at who we would be sending to college? It is obvious those morons cannot finish high school must less college. Most cannot carry on a decent conversation. But I do feel sorry for them because they are a product of the Great Society, say thanks to the liberals, Democrats and black leaders for creating this mess.

Humble Angela
41338
Points
Humble Angela 10/06/13 - 08:58 am
4
2
"It costs more for the
Unpublished

"It costs more for the government to incarcerate a human being than to educate them with a college degree."

Are you taking into account the crimes they will commit when you let them out? There is a real cost there too.

Bodhisattva
11407
Points
Bodhisattva 10/06/13 - 09:02 am
2
6
In 2000, the year Bush was

In 2000, the year Bush was elected, we were starting to go into the black. the US brought in 20.6% of GDP in revenue. To pay back the big donors, the GOP had to push through 2 rounds of massive tax cuts that were heavily loaded in favor of those at the top and even accelerated those cuts as we were starting two wars. The same party that gutted the revenue stream and jacked up the spending is now the same party that's whining about the debt. Revenue as percent of GDP dropped to 15.1% of GDP in 2009 and 2010, Obama's first 2 years in office and was 15.4% in 2011 and 15.8% in 2012. Wow, how could the debt have increased? An administration that ignored oversight and crashed the economy, killed revenue sources, then handed the next guy 17% less revenue when the recession required more expenditures from the government. 1% of the population gets 95% of the income since the recession and you wonder why folks need food stamps and welfare? Add in that the real cost of the military is over a trillion dollars. Roughly half the revenue when Obama started. How could we have debt?
Debt ceiling increases. Which ones did y'all fight?
GW Bush-7
Clinton-4
GHW Bush-4
Reagan-17

Humble Angela
41338
Points
Humble Angela 10/06/13 - 09:13 am
6
2
Personally I'm against ALL
Unpublished

Personally I'm against ALL raises in the Debt Ceiling....just like Obama used to be.

Humble Angela
41338
Points
Humble Angela 10/06/13 - 09:14 am
7
2
"....massive tax cuts that
Unpublished

"....massive tax cuts that were heavily loaded in favor of those at the top...."

Well, when you institute ACROSS THE BOARD tax cuts, naturally, the one's paying the most will see the biggest cut, but it only takes a slightly clever wordsmith to twist the truth around to make it look like there was something unfair about it.

ymnbde
14877
Points
ymnbde 10/06/13 - 09:18 am
7
2
et tu, Congress?

Gingrich was far more responsible for lowering the deficit
than man stain Clinton (p)oking his cigar...
Democrats (and many Republicans) have lost all fiscal restraint
but Congress let this happen
it takes an accumulation of straws to break the camel's back
and it's probably already too late
our children cannot be born free owing so much money
is this how it felt to live in France in the 1780's?
knowing what was about to happen?

deestafford
49090
Points
deestafford 10/06/13 - 09:19 am
5
2
HA

Please stop overloading the left commenters with facts. You are straining their comprehension and giving them headaches. Trying to get them to understand the facts and truth is like trying to teach a bull frog how to fly...it can't be done.

ymnbde
14877
Points
ymnbde 10/06/13 - 09:21 am
6
2
oops, i forgot the daily question

how can a reduction in
the ratio between patients and doctors
do no harm?

t3bledsoe
14291
Points
t3bledsoe 10/06/13 - 09:25 am
3
1
editorial

"“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. government can’t pay its own bills. ... I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit.”"

OK, I am not going to even try to deffend Obama on this one. WE THE PEOPLE have got to be the ones taking the side of, not Dem. or Rep., but the side of a united voice to save this country from going into debt any further! You ask, "Well, Mr. Smart #@&%*#, how are all of us supposed to join togather to try and do this??!!" It's like fighting abortion, or anything else that the majority doesn't like, "Use the collective power of the letter, phone calles, e-mails, public protests, civil disobediance, and the voting booth!!" We can sit on our #@&%*#'s and complain all day and all night, BUT we are totally to blaim if WE THE PEOPLE don't do something to act on this!! Amen!!

Humble Angela
41338
Points
Humble Angela 10/06/13 - 09:27 am
4
2
Well...someone claimed that
Unpublished

Well...someone claimed that they will debate with people who present facts....it was the same one who falsely claimed that I stated that their statistics were lies.

t3bledsoe
14291
Points
t3bledsoe 10/06/13 - 09:27 am
3
1
editorial

"It’s about time someone started talking tough about America’s debt ceiling"

HOW ABOUT ALL OF U.S.!!

Humble Angela
41338
Points
Humble Angela 10/06/13 - 09:28 am
4
2
Well...step one in not going
Unpublished

Well...step one in not going further into debt is to NOT give yourself permission to go further into debt.

Humble Angela
41338
Points
Humble Angela 10/06/13 - 09:29 am
3
2
The President talked tough
Unpublished

The President talked tough about the debt ceiling in 06....didn't he.

t3bledsoe
14291
Points
t3bledsoe 10/06/13 - 09:35 am
5
0
editorial

"“You know,” wisecracked comedian Jay Leno in response, “like raising the speed limit does not increase speed.”"

Comedians are very, very similar to quite a number of the commenters on this site. This "joke" from Jay Leno is really very accurate and to the very point of our debt problem!! If joksters can know the real cause of the problem, THEN THINK of what THE REALLY smart Americans could do to stop this??!!

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