The evil we can't ignore

Was this about radical Islam? It's folly to ignore the possibility

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Vastly varying emotions lay heavy in the spring air Friday as authorities closed in on the mega-violent, ultra-evil Boston bombing suspects.

News Friday morning of one’s death and the other’s scramble to escape brought immense relief – the hope of closure, and the apparent answer to the prayer that this abhorrent crime against humanity wouldn’t go unsolved.

Neither a years-long investigation nor the most meticulous jury trial could’ve rendered a more certain conclusion: We got ’em. Otherwise, you have to believe that two men perfectly fitting the suspects’ descriptions, and who just happened to be armed better than a small army while killing a campus cop in cold blood, have been wrongly fingered.

At the same time, that will be of limited comfort to the marathon’s severely wounded and those who are mourning loved ones. And Monday’s lasting horror was only added to on Friday, by more killing as the heavily armed terrorists sought to take others down with them in a blaze of rabid viciousness.

Relief is also tempered by the realization that there most certainly are others already here or on the way who have similar scruples – which is to say none – about killing innocent men, women and children.

The suspects’ backgrounds as Muslim brothers with ties to violence-wracked Russian republic Chechnya also will put a spotlight on America’s internal war against political correctness, the tenets of which – we’re not really at war, you can’t call it terrorism, you should never “profile” –
inarguably add significantly to the
dangers of modern American life.

That danger was ominously present in the bizarre hopes and expectations among terribly misguided folks on the left that the bombers would turn out to be Americans – preferably white conservative Americans. The unspeakable alternative, of course, was radical Islam – and even after all these years and attacks, that’s something our liberal friends just can’t get their arms around.

Before the suspects’ identities were known, CNN’s Christiane Amanpour on Tuesday shared with the Arab American Institute her “hope beyond hope that this doesn’t turn out to be what it might be” – meaning, of course, radical Islam.

Why? Why hope that it is or isn’t a certain nationality, religion or ideological persuasion? Why play favorites like that? Would it feel better? Terror is terror. Ripped limbs are ripped limbs. Dead children are dead children.

The answer to the question, of course, is that the left is desperate to prove that radical Muslims aren’t a threat, because that doesn’t conform to politically correct dogma. But they’re perfectly willing and even eager to postulate, repeatedly, that conservative Americans are a threat (see editorial Friday, “The Boston Scare-athon”).

Not even being wrong time and again has convinced them otherwise.

We happen to think it’s wrongheaded to assume or, heaven forbid, actually hope that terror emanates from a particular demographic group. Evil isn’t the exclusive franchise of a particular people. Like goodness, barbarity can be found in every shape, size, color and creed, and every corner on Earth.

But it’s also fatal and beyond irrational to ignore real patterns and true threats. Or to try to imagine them away.

We must work for a better world, while dealing honestly with the one we’re currently in.

At this writing, the Boston bombers’ motivations weren’t clear. Whatever their psychotic methods, one would think their real beef would’ve been with Mother Russia. It seems highly improbable that any tie to Russian politics or dreams of Chechen independence led them to attack America.

Were they mentally ill? Isolated and un-assimilated?

Perhaps. Another possibility, as uncomfortable as it might be, is that they fancied themselves part of radical Islam’s homicidal effort to build a worldwide
caliphate, while inflicting maximum pain on the West.

We pray that, rather than try to hope otherwise – or to gin up offense at the notion – that Muslims worldwide will instead dedicate themselves to eradicating hatred in their midst.

And in our midst too.

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InChristLove
22493
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InChristLove 04/20/13 - 07:54 pm
4
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You'll have to wait for a

You'll have to wait for a reply KSL....it's typical of dahreese to throw nonsense out there and then sign off for a while. It's difficult to have a reasonable conversation with so much lag time in between, but it is what it is.......

notice no response to my comment....just thumbs down and then sign off for a while. Maybe he needs to search for more bogus material.

JohnRandolphHardisonCain
576
Points
JohnRandolphHardisonCain 04/20/13 - 08:13 pm
3
3
I gave you PROOF that Bush

I gave you PROOF that Bush lied about torture. Then someone responds that Bush got bad legal advice just like he supposedly got bad intelligence on WMD. The truth is that waterboarding was illegal under U.S. law. It had been illegal for a long time. United States prosecuted other nations that had used waterboarding. Bush and company knew full well waterboarding and other forms of "enhanced interrogation" are illegal.

Obama is refusing to give Congress his legal justification for drone strikes including signature strikes and follow up strikes that kill first responders as well as the targeted killing of Americans on foreign soil. Just because the U.S. Justice Department (part of the establishment) doesn't have the courage or the integrity to investigate Bush's and Obama's actions does not make them legal under U.S. law.

Eventually the chickens come home to roost either with a breakdown of the system or attacks on the system. A 26 year old and a 19 year old took matters into their own hands. What they did was a crime. I don't think this will be the last time there will be blowback from illegal U.S. actions.

The U.S. is in the business of targeted assassination. How will Americans feel when drones developed by an organization or nation attack Americans? Hezbollah has drones. So does Iran. So does Israel. I'm sure Russia and China now have drones. There is even the possibility of another U.S.S. Liberty style "accidental" strike. What if drones strike U.S. soldiers in Jordon? Things could easily spin out of control.

Anyone who thinks the United States has the ability to police the world is dreaming. We don't have the manpower, the technology, the resources, or the license to do so. We have the right to self-defense using the strictest definition of defense. Trying to project dominating U.S. power everywhere in the world, at sea, in the air, in space, and now in cyberspace is bound to fail.

Darby
62437
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Darby 04/20/13 - 08:54 pm
3
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"the increasingly desperate military...

industrial complex and financial industry."

.
Just one more pathetic appeal to rush into the safety and waiting arms of the glorious socialist state.

faithson
8015
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faithson 04/20/13 - 08:41 pm
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darby

since when has it not ALL, and I mean ALL, been about the 'money honey'... hopefully 'that' has not been swept under the rug by so much passionate patriotism. Since when did 'money' have a soul, a morality, civil rights.... OH YEA, citizens united... Corp's and their money have the same standing as YOU and ME. and some wonder why capitolism is waning.

KSL
254708
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KSL 04/20/13 - 09:34 pm
3
2
faith

Are you in favor of the waning of capitalism? Or are you in favor of the waning of the sites of the heads of government entities, like waning of the SC Capitol, the GA Capitol, the NC Capitol. I have many more to go, including the main one, the US Capitol. I know you. You surely are not threatening those buildings.

PTHS, a former poster, often said, "Words mean things."

allhans
25545
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allhans 04/20/13 - 09:44 pm
2
0
The two young men who carried

The two young men who carried out the Boston catastrophe was granted political asylum in this country..which means the U.S. take them in, gives them safe haven and support after they arrive here. All that, and they hate us enough to kill and maim fellow citizens.
Our taxpayers money at work...

Truth Matters
14843
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Truth Matters 04/20/13 - 09:57 pm
2
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Proof..

KSL @ 7:30...
You and I agree. When someone wants proof they should go and find it. I was not asking for proof for me but merely pointing out how many times HA asked another poster for proof.

I can discern when someone is seriously seeking the truth and then and only then will I spend the extra time trying to share more information. Most of the people here have made up their minds and I choose to not spend my time trying to convince someone whose mind is already made up.

InChristLove
22493
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InChristLove 04/20/13 - 10:29 pm
3
1
Illogical....telling someone

Illogical....telling someone to go find proof to something you have stated when the person doesn't believe what you stated is true.....now how do you find proof to prove something is true when you believe it to be false. Makes no sense.

myfather15
59735
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myfather15 04/20/13 - 10:46 pm
3
1
@Truthnevermatters

Of course you're correct as always. When someone (ANYONE) spouts ridiculous non-sense; we should simply assume they are being 100% truthful. We should NEVER expect or especially ask them to prove their allegations. How aburd would it be to actually ask someone to tell us where they got that information.

You say; "When you know you are telling the truth and one still begs for proof, that is a good sign that they are (not capable of recognizing the truth, or they willfully choose to ignore it), and finally, it means their definition of truth is relative to their political sphere.

NO: it means we simply aren't blind sheep being led to the slaughter. We chose NOT to believe ANY man without being provided proof of their allegations. I've been a law enforcement officer for 16 years; I've learned that you don't blindly believe ANYONE, from the lowest person on the street, to your pastor or spiritual advisor, to the highest political figures. You would be wise to not blindly believe ANY of them. My trust is firmly where it should be; with Christ, who shall return here to absolutely once and for all fix this mess of a world. Those who've stood against Him so adamently, I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. Did I say they are going to hades? Nope, sure didn't but they might be scrubbing toilet bowls for a long time.

Just like JohnCain, saying he "Proved" his point by giving us links to his information, then using NPR as one of the links. Muuuhaahaahaaaaaaaa!!! You've got to be kidding me. That would be like asking Al Queda what they think of American policies. Of course you're going to get a negative response. How about giving us a link with just a little less bias.

carcraft
55696
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carcraft 04/20/13 - 10:44 pm
2
1
Dahreese 17:51 post. It was

Dahreese 17:51 post. It was very easy for Obama to be critical of Bush until the realities of life entered in. You folks also seem to forget that Bush went to Congress and got approval for the enhanced interrogations from the leaders in Congress including Pelosi. Bush wasn't a cowboy running around Willey nilley!

myfather15
59735
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myfather15 04/20/13 - 10:49 pm
2
1
I'm still having a hard time

I'm still having a hard time believing someone would actually ridicule another person for wanting an allegation to be proven. This is one of the main reasons we are in this shape. That's why you will never seen me refer to them by their screen name, because that screen name is FAR from accurate.

CobaltGeorge
218138
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CobaltGeorge 04/20/13 - 11:07 pm
2
2
KSL

PTHS would have made this topic, a rip roaring, wham bang, thank you all, .......NOTED.......Sean in the Emergency Room!!!!!!!

CobaltGeorge
218138
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CobaltGeorge 04/20/13 - 11:26 pm
1
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Before Final Moments

This blog is in no way intended to compete with or replace the "play nice" site that was created by another former AC poster. It's merely an option that allows you to post WHATEVER you'd like to say with virtually no restrictions which might be contrary to the desired mood of the other one.

-PTHS/Petey Aitchess/Troy Enfante (etc)

KSL
254708
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KSL 04/20/13 - 11:44 pm
3
2
I am so appalled at the basic

I am so appalled at the basic public education in this country that costs so very much more than police protection and utilities, tax wise. It is totally disgusting what children are now being taught, as well as the results we are getting for our money

faithson
8015
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faithson 04/21/13 - 12:02 am
2
2
no threat KSL... just observing

unbridled capitalism has been a catastrophe to the world. The idea that ALL people are motivated by the almighty dollar is held by fewer and fewer. As to education... it is not what they are taught, it is who is teaching them, both parent and teacher. The problem will take more than money to correct.

KSL
254708
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KSL 04/21/13 - 12:28 am
3
2
Where on this earth is there

Where on this earth is there a place where there is unbridled capitalism?

I would totally agree. More and more people are expecting their basic needs to be taken care of by someone else (like the government, and that, translates to taxpayers). Back when, family either helped, or they didn't. There was a whole lot better behavior then.

JohnRandolphHardisonCain
576
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JohnRandolphHardisonCain 04/21/13 - 11:27 am
2
3
myfather15, I gave you a link

myfather15, I gave you a link that PROVED United States used torture. The NPR link has a TRANSCRIPT with Asa Hutchinson, a former U.S. Senator from Arkansas who is a REPUBLICAN and a member of the Constitution Project’s Task Force on Detainee Treatment. That non partisan panel studied this issue for two years and concluded it is an INDISPUTABLE FACT that United States used torture in the wake of the 9/11/01 attacks, and US officials in the highest echelons of government are the ones responsible for it. You cannot dismiss this as NPR "liberal propaganda". Here is another link to the meticulously documented report: http://detaineetaskforce.org/report/

myfather15
59735
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myfather15 04/21/13 - 03:14 pm
2
3
John, John, John

The "torture" they used was waterboarding. Now, I understand that has been classified as torture (probably by some whining liberal) but it also gave us the information that led to finding Bin Laden.

So, if pouring water down someone's throat to give the ILLUSION of drowning is torture, but leads to massive information that saves hundreds of thousands of lives, COUNT ME AS VOTING FOR IT!!! I'm happy to do so!!

Oh, and when you discover that I'm involved in some extreme right wing terrorist group and you prove it; feel free to waterboard me as well. Because it won't happen!!! I'm not some idiotic extremist going around the world trying to kill people because they aren't Christian. But if I'm stupid enough to join one of those groups, like the radical Muslims have, feel free to waterboard me daily.

myfather15
59735
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myfather15 04/21/13 - 03:08 pm
2
1
There are hundreds of

There are hundreds of thousands of different websites, with hundreds of thousands of different views.

If I believe aliens exist, there are numerous websites dedicated to this, which would support my belief; even if there has NEVER been proof and they've never actually visited us except in movies.

If I believe in Big foot, Unicorns, mermaids, ect; I CAN find websites with will support by theory. Next??

Humble Angela
41338
Points
Humble Angela 04/21/13 - 03:50 pm
2
2
Mr. Cain, you showed NO PROOF
Unpublished

Mr. Cain, you showed NO PROOF that Bush LIED about anything. You showed that he authorized the use of what you call torture. That is not the same as lying. You seem to have a knack for obfuscating truth by making extremely long and verbose posts that never answer questions that were asked, and then you insist that since you said something that it must be true. Just letting you know that we are on to you.

Humble Angela
41338
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Humble Angela 04/21/13 - 03:53 pm
2
2
Iraqi weapons in Syria
Unpublished

Truthmatters....I didn't ask her for proof, because I had already found it myself.

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/071912-618875-syria-chemical-we...

carcraft
55696
Points
carcraft 04/21/13 - 05:52 pm
2
1
I would like to see some

I would like to see some instance of unbridled communism being a success! Socialism ussually ends when you run out of other peoples money to spend such as in Spain and Greece! I think the Capitalism we have maybe wanning but it hasn't yet created the debt crises we see in Europe and rapidly coming to American socialist Bastions like California!

dahreese
5110
Points
dahreese 04/21/13 - 07:18 pm
3
3
"You'll have to wait for a
Unpublished

"You'll have to wait for a reply KSL....it's typical of dahreese to throw nonsense out there and then sign off for a while. It's difficult to have a reasonable conversation with so much lag time in between, but it is what it is.......notice no response to my comment....just thumbs down and then sign off for a while. Maybe he needs to search for more bogus material."

There is lag time between posts (whether hours or days) because I run out of the free time AC allots those who are not paid subscribers. You and your self-flattery have nothing to do with it.

"I have no issue with someone questioning war, but it is your quiet condemnation of others who defend this country (whether right or wrong)."

If you are talking about my condeming the military who are sent to fight these wars, then your statement is a blatent lie!

If you speak of my condeming those who send the military to fight unnecessary wars while they stay safely home, you are on target.

The problem with conservatives is that you feel like you have to defend the country even when it's wrong. That doesn't seem "Christian" to me.

You swallow and wallow in editorials like the one above - over and over and over and over - and think you're being sooooo patriotic when you do so.

You're about politics as you are religion.

If you question war you're afraid of being anti-patriotic.

If you question your religion you're afraid of going to hell.

Have you ever dared ask yourself the question who needs religion anyway to lead a spiritual life?

Or does thinking like that scare the bejezuss out of you?

Now quote me some scripture (declared as such, and not before, in the 4TH CENTURY).
---------------------------------------------------------------------
For Sweet Angela who knows it all;

Bush denies authorizing prisoner torture despite memos - ShortNewswww.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=40165Cached
You +1'd this publicly. Undo
Jun 11, 2004

George W Bush admits to authorizing torture. - YouTube► 2:16► 2:16www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfa88i0ZhVA

JohnRandolphHardisonCain
576
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JohnRandolphHardisonCain 04/21/13 - 07:29 pm
1
2
From The New York Times

From The New York Times editorial on April 16th on the finding of an 11-member task force convened by the Constitution Project on United States' use of torture:

"The work of the task force, led by two former congressmen — Asa Hutchinson, a Republican, who served in the Bush administration as under secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, and James Jones, a Democrat, who was an ambassador to Mexico during the Clinton years — is informed by interviews with dozens of former American and foreign officials, as well as with former prisoners.

It is the fullest independent effort so far to assess the treatment of detainees at Guantánamo Bay, in Afghanistan and Iraq, and at the C.I.A.’s secret prisons. Those who sanctioned the use of brutal methods, like former Vice President Dick Cheney, will continue to defend their use. But the report’s authoritative conclusion that “the United States engaged in the practice of torture” is impossible to dismiss by a public that needs to know what was committed in the nation’s name.

The report found that those methods violated international legal obligations with “no firm or persuasive evidence” that they produced valuable information that could not have been obtained by other means. This blunt language should help end a corrosive debate that has broken down on largely partisan lines.

Reaching a stronger national consensus on the issue of torture is crucial because, as the report says, “as long as the debate continues, so too does the possibility that the United states could again engage in torture.” The task force found that using torture — like waterboarding, slamming prisoners into walls, and chaining them in uncomfortable stress position for hours — had “no justification” and “damaged the standing of our nation, reduced our capacity to convey moral censure when necessary and potentially increased the danger to U.S. military personnel taken captive.” And in engineering “enforced disappearances” and secret detentions, the United States violated its international treaty obligations. A detailed 22-page appendix cites dozens of legal cases in which the United States prosecuted similar treatment or denounced it as torture when carried out by other countries.

Brutality is not uncommon in warfare. But, as the panel notes, there never was before “the kind of considered and detailed discussions that occurred after 9/11 directly involving a president and his top advisers on the wisdom, propriety and legality of inflicting pain and torment on some detainees in our custody.”

The panel further details the ethical lapses of government lawyers in the Bush years who served up “acrobatic” advice to justify brutal interrogations, and of medical professionals who helped oversee them. It is also rightly critical of the Obama administration’s use of expansive claims of secrecy to keep the details of rendition and torture from becoming public and to block victims’ lawsuits."

carcraft
55696
Points
carcraft 04/21/13 - 09:43 pm
3
1
The US really doesn't torture

The US really doesn't torture regardless of what some stupid report says . To get to the toe nail finger nail pulling, testicular electrical shocking hand crushing male rape torture look up "rendition "! Obama has kept rendition in place! The "client "is sent to a country that isn't squimish about providing a brief view of the worse Dante's Inferno had to provide!

JohnRandolphHardisonCain
576
Points
JohnRandolphHardisonCain 04/22/13 - 07:47 am
1
3
So, the U.S. IS complicit in

So, the U.S. IS complicit in torture when it renders suspected terrorists to 3rd countries known to abuse human rights. Obama is as guilty of this as Bush. KSL, it really doesn't matter "who started it". When violence and retribution spiral out of control, it is incumbent on rational thinking people to take steps to ease the situation. Take Syria for example. United States has egged on the violence by supporting rebels, demanding Assad leave, and siding with rebels who refuse to negotiate. On thing is certain about the 11 year 5 month long U.S. "global war on terror". It has resulted in the spread of militant Islam in the Middle East, in the Arabian Peninsula, in the Maghreb, elsewhere in Africa, in South Asia, and in Central Asia. United States militarized foreign policy certainly hasn't "ended it". We are only making matters worse and bankrupting ourselves in a doomed attempt to dominate (or, if you prefer, police) the world.

Humble Angela
41338
Points
Humble Angela 04/22/13 - 07:57 am
3
2
Bush denies torture, because
Unpublished

Bush denies torture, because the techniques used were NOT defined as torture. How hard is that to understand?

JohnRandolphHardisonCain
576
Points
JohnRandolphHardisonCain 04/22/13 - 10:30 am
1
3
Waterboarding, stress

Waterboarding, stress positioning, slapping, hooding, sensory derivation, slamming people against walls, sleep deprivation, and extended periods of solitary confinement are all torture. Beyond that there are the pictures from Abu Ghraib which prove United States was engaged in torture. Electrical shocks and intimation with dogs is torture. It went further than that. There is a picture of a dead Iraqi general on ice with a U.S. female soldier giving a thumbs up. That Iraqi general died after he was stuffed inside a sleeping bag and had an interrogator sitting on his chest. Torture and MURDER are war crimes. Your denial is patently absurd. It is inexcusable on a personal level, but U.S. justice officials are even more culpable for failing to investigate and prosecute. These were not "rogue" soldiers who did these things. This was an organized program. The CIA outsourced to private interrogators. The bottom line as far as this editorial is concerned is that blowback from illegal U.S. wars, illegal drone strikes, torture, and the killing of civilians over the last 11 years 6 months since 9/11/01 is not surprising. Evil exists on both sides. Our country should stop contributing its share of evil which only continues and escalates violence. Our country should return to the rule of law, respect for human rights, respect for sovereignty, and respect the right of others to self-determination and autonomy.

Humble Angela
41338
Points
Humble Angela 04/22/13 - 10:40 am
3
1
No one said it was fun and
Unpublished

No one said it was fun and games. Being in prison isn't fun and games, but it's not torture. Just because you and some other people say something is torture, does not make it so.....and your definition being the only definition is necessary for what he said to be a lie.

Humble Angela
41338
Points
Humble Angela 04/22/13 - 10:41 am
3
2
So....it's back to name
Unpublished

So....it's back to name calling again dahreese? Does it always have to come back to that?

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