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The callous refusal of a nursing home in California to try to save a dying resident – and perhaps other cases like it around the country – should spark a national discussion on conditions and policies in such facilities.

The jaw-dropping 9-1-1 call in the Bakersfield, Calif., case has sparked national outrage, as the 9-1-1 operator can be heard gamely trying to find someone at the nursing home – a gardener, a passerby, anyone – to save the woman, even as the nurse on the line declines to do so due to company policy.

Two similar incidents have been reported in Minnesota.

If the lawyers have deemed this necessary, they’re wrong. If the law decrees it, it’s wrong. No good samaritan, especially in a nursing home, should fear reprisal for trying to save a life.

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jkline
527
Points
jkline 03/05/13 - 06:56 am
6
1
Laws and Rules Kill People

This is what happens when people follow laws instead of conscience. An honest human being will always break a rule to save someone. The idea that rules must always be followed is a disease in itself.

Riverman1
81577
Points
Riverman1 03/05/13 - 06:58 am
10
3
Just to be accurate here. The

Just to be accurate here. The lady who died did have a "do not resusitate" order which I assume came at the request of her family. Her family is saying the staff of the nursing home did the right thing.

SGT49
1816
Points
SGT49 03/05/13 - 07:05 am
7
1
Before everyone goes off the

Before everyone goes off the deep end on this one, consider if the lady who died had a DNR (do not resuscitate) on file. My mother did. The medical staff had to stand by and let her die because that was what she wanted. It broke my dad's heart, but she made a conscious decision and her wishes were followed.

americafirst
965
Points
americafirst 03/05/13 - 07:53 am
7
1
If there was a DNR, then why

If there was a DNR, then why did the nurse call 911 for an ambulance?

Riverman1
81577
Points
Riverman1 03/05/13 - 09:12 am
7
0
AmericaFirst, on O'Reilly last

AmericaFirst, on O'Reilly last night one of the women commentators he has on stated she DID have a DNR order. CBS earlier reported she did not. I also heard on O'Reilly that the woman's daugther understood and was not upset.

soapy_725
43672
Points
soapy_725 03/05/13 - 08:27 am
0
0
You are told to have these life choices
Unpublished

on legal documents. State your wishes. Then when the news media's needs to hype sales, boom here we go. Do away with the commercials for living wills.

This is all about lawyers and potential for MONEY. It cannot be about the sanctity of innocent life since we murder babies. Stop the bottom feeding ambulance chasing lawyers from playing "both ends" of litigation.

Nursing homes have regulations out the wazoo. They don't have a great reputation. They have a procedure. They send patients to the emergency room all of the time. For a fever. For a bruise. Personal experience. Nursing homes are not HOSPITALS. They call for outside help from a hospital or an undertaker.

Stop letting the news media define correct behavior. You will be surprised if you think for yourself. It is enlightening.

Beachgal
357
Points
Beachgal 03/05/13 - 08:48 am
7
0
Just for clarity

The facility involved is not a nursing home, it is a senior independant living facility. Independant living facilities are very clear in that they do not provide hands-on care for the residents. If a client falls, chokes, etc they must (by law and I'm sure insurance purposes) call 911. In my experience with facilities, they make it very clear from the beginning that this is the policy. The nurse was following the policies that I am sure had been drilled into her from her first day of employment. With that being said, I think this whole situation stems from our litigious society where everyone is one lawsuit away from bankruptcy.

The client was a DNR, so her wishes were well known. I am a veteran nurse. It is easy for me to say I would jump in there to do what needed to be done, but not knowing the complete situation complicates the matter.

americafirst
965
Points
americafirst 03/05/13 - 09:04 am
4
2
I would bet that if this

I would bet that if this nurse was walking down the street and someone collapsed in front of her and needed CPR to survive, she would do so without hesitation. But she would not do the same for one of her patients in that home? Why then even have nurses there?

Riverman1
81577
Points
Riverman1 03/05/13 - 09:16 am
5
0
The DNR Question

Reading the CBS report again carefully and after hearing on O'Reilly last night that she did have a DNR order, I suspect she had one, but the home didn't have an official one. The CBS report said she didn't have one at the home, implying there may have been one. But the woman had Alzheimer's apparently and the family had done a DNR at some time. So this is not actually as bad as it sounds. Are DNR's to be honored or not?

Beachgal
357
Points
Beachgal 03/05/13 - 09:38 am
5
1
Honoring a DNR

I have had quite a bit of experience working with seniors. What I tell my clients and their families is that if a DNR is in place, then it will be honored. However, if the client has an issue going on such as chest pain, choking, bleeding, fall, etc. then 911 will be called. Those things aren't life-threatening in themselves, but they can be if not treated. I am sure the staff of the facility were following their orders and felt terrible that they were not able to help. From what I hear, the daughter was satisfied with the care her mother got and was glad they honored the DNR.

CobaltGeorge
153739
Points
CobaltGeorge 03/05/13 - 10:15 am
7
0
This Is

a great example of Damn If You Do - Damn If You Don't!

seenitB4
84543
Points
seenitB4 03/05/13 - 10:38 am
4
2
NEWS MEDIA

Find something else to go postal about.....this does NOT cut the mustard,.....geez..

Jane18
12332
Points
Jane18 03/05/13 - 10:52 am
3
0
Time To Go?

Leave everyone involved alone....With everything that is known, this is what the family is comfortable with. Plus, think about this, the little lady was 87 years old, don't you think she, and her body, were tired and ready to leave this mixed up world?

dichotomy
31729
Points
dichotomy 03/05/13 - 10:56 am
3
0
I think the bottom line here

I think the bottom line here is that the daughter, who is a nurse and probably quite familiar with her mother's condition, was satisfied with the actions taken. In addition, several news agencies are reporting the 87 year old woman had expressed Do Not Resuscitate wishes. Also, apparently this senior living facility had a policy that was clearly stated on it's literature and web site about how medical emergencies would be handled.

It's easy to condemn someone and call this a jaw-dropping 9-1-1 call but just remember.....you weren't there, you were not possibly aware of the elderly lady's DNR wishes, and your job wasn't on the line if you violated your employers written policies. They lady on the phone was NOT a nurse...she was one of the administrative staff.....according to news reports this morning.

Darby
24827
Points
Darby 03/05/13 - 12:36 pm
4
0
"...think about this, the little lady was 87 years old,.....

don't you think she, and her body, were tired and ready to leave this mixed up world?"

.

Don't really know what she was going through. My mom was feisty until she left us at 94. On the other hand, I hear this lady had Alzheimer's so, maybe....

None of my business...

itsanotherday1
41448
Points
itsanotherday1 03/05/13 - 07:26 pm
2
0
Beachgals 0838

says it very well; as do the others who say this is not the big deal it is made out to be.

The question I have is the same as someone expressed above. What is a nurse doing on duty if there is no medical assistance to be delivered? I certainly understand that it is assisted living and not a "care" facility, but why a nurse on staff? Maybe Beachgal knows?

harley_52
22831
Points
harley_52 03/05/13 - 10:11 pm
1
0
Are You Folks...

....familiar with the term "hospice?"

itsanotherday1
41448
Points
itsanotherday1 03/05/13 - 10:52 pm
1
0
Hospice?

Of course I am, but that wasn't mentioned in this case that I know of; and hospice doesn't typically use a "nurse", but rather a certified "sitter" that can dispense medication, attend to bedsores, etc.

rebellious
20514
Points
rebellious 03/05/13 - 11:59 pm
2
0
No Humanity Anymore

Makes me wonder if anyone bothered holding her hand, smoothing her hair back, talking softly to her as the last breath of life ebbed away. Or did she spend her last moments lying on a cold tile floor as people walked around or even stepped over her as if she never existed. If she had accidently cut a vein and been bleeding, would pressure have been applied to slow or stop the bleeding, or would she have been allowed to bleed out. Or maybe it was obvious she was dead when she hit the floor, I don't know. But this seems like something from a futuristic movie where life has no value. Or something from the animal kingdom where the other animals have no reasoning capacity to help or assist, so they simply watch another be eaten or die from some rescuable situation.

Everytime I think I have heard it all, or seen the extreme of human cruelty and heartlessness, I realize I ain't seen nothing yet.

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