It's up to us

In gun debate, it's not government's job to reshape society

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We appreciate President Obama’s sentiments for a safe society, particularly for children.

Moreover, his plan for gun control sounds innocuous enough – and conservatives’ fears that he’d shred the Constitution in his 23 executive orders either were overblown, or perhaps convinced him to tread lightly.

Still, the problem with the White House reaction to the Sandy Hook massacre is twofold: 1) it’s unlikely to reduce gun violence, particularly since the vast majority of the violence occurs on city streets, often with illegal guns, and 2) it will only increase the size and reach of the federal government leviathan.

In other words, the attempt by the White House to drill down into American society to unprecedented and impossible depths may accomplish little else than further bloating the bureaucracy.

No amount of bureaucracy, no scurrying about by an emboldened officialdom, would’ve prevented a deranged young man from exacting carnage in Newtown, and it won’t stop anyone else.

What it will do is further poke the government’s nose into our business – even going so far as to press our doctors to have that little gun talk with us.

We fear, then, that should the president’s laundry list be enacted, the country will be less free and no more safe.

The Department of Homeland Security is already stirring, as is the Department of Health and Human Services and other federal agencies.

One recommendation the president made that we agree with is the need to empower schools to have armed security. When that was first proposed by the National Rifle Association, of course, the notion was scoffed at.

Furthermore, the president’s call for a Centers for Disease Control study on the causes and prevention of gun violence – though there are likely plenty of existing studies – may produce conclusions Mr. Obama and his left-leaning supporters find uncomfortable. If the study is honest, it will no doubt conclude that guns don’t cause violence – but that many other societal factors do. And many of those societal factors are the direct descendants of liberal policies and loose cultural mores.

They will also find that assault weapons are very rarely used in crime.

We urge this president and all who would lead us not to try to use government to radically alter American society, particularly after only a few weeks of closed-door meetings.

There are things the government can and should do, especially regarding mental illness and guns. We don’t suppose any of the perpetrators of mass shootings in recent years have been quite right in the mind.

But the real heavy lifting will have to be done by Americans themselves. Government can’t create the kind of society we want. That’s up to us.

It has to start with an honest, dispassionate examination of what really ails us.

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fedex227
11187
Points
fedex227 01/19/13 - 01:51 am
6
13
One of the most ridiculous editorials published ...
Unpublished

"The Department of Homeland Security is already stirring, as is the Department of Health and Human Services and other federal agencies."

What do you mean by 'stirring' and what evidence is there that they are 'stirred', whatever the heck that means. Care to quote a DHS or HHS source that was 'stirred'? That would require journalistic investigation. Too much work.

"...the president’s call for a Centers for Disease Control study on the causes and prevention of gun violence – though there are likely plenty of existing studies"

A real newspaper might actually source those studies and cite the results. Or did you just make that up?

"If the study is honest, it will no doubt conclude that guns don’t cause violence"

By your wording you've already concluded (with no evidence, of course) that the CDC is just a tool of the left, so any study they conduct will be slanted. And your crack editorial staff has determined this how? In addition, you've already determined the results of a study not yet conducted by the CDC.

"There are things the government can and should do, especially regarding mental illness and guns."

But don't let it involve doctors diagnosing mental illness in patients then asking them if they have access to deadly weapons.

Amazing.

specsta
6595
Points
specsta 01/19/13 - 02:43 am
7
14
Don't Give ACES Too Much Credit

Come on, fedex, you know the ACES folk have no clue about little terms like "research" and "credible sources". They just write whatever the heck they want and hope the populace doesn't know any better to demand facts to back up their claims.

myfather15
55764
Points
myfather15 01/19/13 - 06:46 am
14
4
Oooh, this is priceless.

The two previous posters are on here talking about "research" and "Credible sources". That is hilarious seeing all the rhetoric they have put forth, without a single shred of evidence. Oooh, but I must have forgot, it's only credible research when a left wing outlet conducts the research, right? So, if Bush would have used the CDC in a study, it would have been branded right wing. Now that Obama is doing it, it's left wing. But the reality is, this is probably correct. Being that the CDC is a government organization and the President gets to choose who directs it. So, you can probably bet the CDC slants towards the currect Presidents viewpoint. Sound Far Fetched? Really? In todays society you find it hard to believe in this level of corruption? This is minute corruption compared to other examples.

Again, I want to REPEAT now and anytime in the future where it might be needed; I DON'T trust Government!! I DON'T Trust corrupt politicians to make my decisions!!! I'm VERY skeptical of ANYONE who desires to run for any public office in today's society. Because I've witnessed it first hand, most of the time it's for PERSONAL reasons, NOT to honestly represent the people. Those with political aspirations usually desire one of the following, POWER, PRESTIGE, MONEY, FAME, POPULARITY and many others I can't think of at the moment. Do you think I'm going to trust people like this with my future? Especially to tell me I can't possess certain weapons, when the founding fathers said it was NECESSARY.

I didn't like Bush because he was a big government republican. Clinton is evident, I don't agree with everything Reagan did or attempted to do. The bottom line is that I just can't see how anyone blindly trusts the government. Because government are run by men and men will fail you by lying, stealing, cheatinig, killing and anything else to find and retain power. So, the only reason I can see someone blindly trusting government is if their beliefs are in the same corrupt line and they believe Government should completely take over.

carcraft
27123
Points
carcraft 01/19/13 - 06:44 am
13
2
I have not seen one shred of

I have not seen one shred of evidence from a liberal that Obama's gun ban will do any good! Criminal statistics from Clinton's gun ban showed no change! We have many more guns now than than ten years ago yet the rate of gun deaths has dropped from 5.7/100,000 to 4.11/100,000! Study was done by Lott I believe and can be found in the Wall Street Journal. Now for the liberals, what authority does Obama have to ban anything? The presidents power is limited by the seperation of powers and there is no existing legislation to base this ban! If a conservative gets in could he ban abortion by executive decree?

carcraft
27123
Points
carcraft 01/19/13 - 06:55 am
12
3
If you look at gun violence

If you look at gun violence you will find well over half (about 70%) occurs in large metropolitan areas (about 50 of the largest cities such as Chicago) , all are controlled by Democrat administrations and all have strict gun laws,large welfare populations and high levels of gang activity. Obama managed to vote present on tougher sentences for gun crimes committed on school property when he was an Illinois senator. But to be honest if gun laws worked 500 people would not have been killed in Chicago last year!

carcraft
27123
Points
carcraft 01/19/13 - 07:00 am
12
2
More people are killed with

More people are killed with feet and hands than are killed with long rifles including assault weapons, so would you expect banning a very small section of long gun sales to have much effect on gun violence? The ACES editorial is spot on!

myfather15
55764
Points
myfather15 01/19/13 - 07:40 am
6
1
President Obama didn't ban

President Obama didn't ban guns using executive order, athough he did call for an "assault weapon" ban, but he is going to allow congress to approve this. Thats fine, but it sounds like he is biding his time until the 2014 elections and the democrats take the house, which they are going to do in a landslide.

Why don't democrats just move on and entertain some ideas that might ACTUALLY help reduce violence? Because the simple FACT is they ARE NEVER going to get citizens guns. Clinton didn't attempt to confiscate guns, he just banned the sale of new guns of certain type. The government will NEVER be able to enforce a confiscation, even if they wanted to. Most of the civilian law enforcement (such as myself) will NEVER be used to take citizens firearms. Also WE won't turn in our firearms. Trust me, I've spoken about this issue with many LE officers that personally owned AR-15's and other rifles. EVERY ONE has said they will NOT turn them if even if "required" to by the federal government. They've said they would hide them, bury them, not register them and just about anyting else besides turn them in. The vast majority of gun owners, agree with this.

So, they wouldn't be able to build jails big enough to hold all the people who wouldn't comply. And what about this business of doctors asking me if I have weapons in my house? Are you serious? After all this time, this is the BEST the federal government can come up with?

Doctor: "Do you have any firearms in your house?"

myfather15: "Why no Mr. Doctor, I do not."

End of inquiry!!

Wow, was this brilliant President Obama, I sure wish we had more leaders as smart as you to come with this. I mean, theres no way any of us simpletons could have came up with such a brilliant, unbeatable plan. Bottom line is that those on left dreaming of this fantasy tale where they are taking people guns; don't hold your breath!! It will NEVER happen!!

Riverman1
87044
Points
Riverman1 01/19/13 - 07:41 am
10
2
Review Definition of Editorial

Some people need to review the definition of editorial. Next, when they propose a lack of scientific evidence, they should realize they have to present that which is in question.

Obama is simply playing politics again with little kids on the stage with him. He proposes this and that while none of it makes sense or will be effective. We all feel immense grief at the murders of those kids, but attacking the 2nd Amendment and guns is not a well thought out tactic.

myfather15
55764
Points
myfather15 01/19/13 - 08:53 am
9
2
@River

Agree with you 100%. The media had already started their attack on the dissenters before Wendnesday. They are already trying to label anyone who disagrees as a barbaric monster who doesn't care the slightest about children. Then our PRESIDENT exploits children and uses them as props in the same effort. Actually using children to further an agenda that has been proven not to work. Taking guns away from citizens has been proven over and over not to reduce gun violence.

That is exactly why I say there HAS to be another reason. President Obama and his minions have to know this will NOT work, but then why would they still push for it? It's subtle, they will give us a push here and a push there until they get us close to the edge and then they will give us a GIANT SHOVE. I suspect that shove will come after the 2014 elections and the democrats take the house (which they are easily going to do). Many have said it's possible by that time that Obama may have appointed two new Supreme Court Justices, dramatically swaying the Supreme Court to the left. With good ol John Roberts in there, they don't need a lot of swaying. They WILL try to take guns, it's going to happen eventually under this administration, watch and see. But it WILL NOT HAPPEN, for reasons I've stated previously.

Now, go ahead leftists, start painting me as a conspiracy theorist lunatic, just using fear tactics, etc. Because thats the ONLY avenue the left has is to paint everyone opposing them as such.

Riverman1
87044
Points
Riverman1 01/19/13 - 08:37 am
11
1
The Real Crime Against Children

MyFather, when they bring out, "It's for the children," hang onto your wallet and constitutional rights, always. The real crime against children is placing a $50,000 debt on all of them at birth because of the national debt.

myfather15
55764
Points
myfather15 01/19/13 - 09:07 am
7
2
Adam Lanza DID NOT use an AR-15

He used four, count them again FOUR pistols. The AR-15 was found locked in his vehicle. Piers Morgan has been blathering for weeks that AR-15's were used in the last four mass shootings. Will he now admit he was wrong? I wouldn't hold my breath because Piers is a committed left wing idiot. I wonder when we are going to hear a comment from the White House about this? Do they still have reason to continue going after "assault rifles"? Will semi-automatic pistols be next? Below is the link, it's from NBC, not Fox New!!! You can tell Pete obviously isn't delighted to report this "news".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBmJB1DKVco

seenitB4
90981
Points
seenitB4 01/19/13 - 09:33 am
8
0
Will someone knock P Morgan out cold...please

"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves ... and include all men capable of bearing arms."

-- Senator Richard Henry Lee, 1788, on "militia" in the 2nd Amendment

CobaltGeorge
165050
Points
CobaltGeorge 01/19/13 - 09:36 am
7
1
The Sandy Hook Massacre

is turning out to be a bad as the JFK Grassy Knoll. If the video of the removal of a weapon from Adam Lanza's car is not fake, the weapon was without a doubt not an AR-15!

justthefacts
22759
Points
justthefacts 01/19/13 - 10:09 am
8
2
Diversion

Obama figures discussing gun control is a better play than something like JOBs.

Humble Angela
41338
Points
Humble Angela 01/19/13 - 10:24 am
10
3
Anything to divert from his
Unpublished

Anything to divert from his horrible job of running the country....how long has it been since he signed a budget?......oh right....he's NEVER signed one.

soapy_725
43772
Points
soapy_725 01/19/13 - 11:21 am
1
0
Playing politics with innocent lives?
Unpublished

That is the function of government. Pure and simple. The fact that states the truth was listed above. No further study is needed.

"But to be honest if gun laws worked 500 people would not have been killed in Chicago last year!"

" If Joe Biden was the man for this job, why didn't his efforts at reducing gun violence of the past work."

You CANNOT legislate morality. You cannot make a person be a productive member of society. It this were fact, we would not need prisons. Penal Institutions and Reformatories were the brainchild of denial. Of so called religious based reasoning gone astray.

bubbasauce
22194
Points
bubbasauce 01/19/13 - 11:28 am
9
1
I can't wait until my doctor

I can't wait until my doctor asks me do I own a gun,, or even attempts to ask me about guns. I will be glad to let him know that is none of his *-+@#$%*&#%&$# business! Thank you very much for asking doc!

dichotomy
34491
Points
dichotomy 01/19/13 - 11:30 am
6
1
First Step.

"Furthermore, the president’s call for a Centers for Disease Control study on the causes and prevention of gun violence – though there are likely plenty of existing studies – may produce conclusions Mr. Obama and his left-leaning supporters find uncomfortable."

The Chronicle makes this sound pretty innocuous. It IS NOT innocuous. If the CDC were to produce some bogus "study" that deemed guns to be a public health hazard it would be the precursor to justify having guns fall under EPA, or FDA, or both, regulations without requiring congressional approval.

You don't need a congressional weapons or ammo ban if the FDA uses a CDC study to jump up and say they are hazardous to the public's health and should be banned like DDT, or maybe you need a doctor's prescription, after a mental exam, to get one.

Now, just how independent do you think a givermint run agency headed by Obama appointed Director of the CDC Dr. Thomas Frieden, the former New York City Health Commissioner, would be? You know, a New York liberal from where they just banned weapons with hand grips and magazines of more than 10 rounds, and where they make it as difficult and expensive as possible to buy any kind of handgun. Just what do you think the findings of any "study" coming out of an Obama controlled CDC would say?

This executive order to the CDC, and the funding to dummy up the study real good, is the first crack in the shell of the 2nd Amendment.

Humble Angela
41338
Points
Humble Angela 01/19/13 - 11:29 am
8
3
"They just write whatever the
Unpublished

"They just write whatever the heck they want and hope the populace doesn't know any better to demand facts to back up their claims."

"More guns means more people killed by guns. More shootings, more murders, more arguments settled with a bullet in somebody's hide."

Both of these quotes are from the same person.....notice the complete lack of evidence to back up the claim?

Humble Angela
41338
Points
Humble Angela 01/19/13 - 11:35 am
5
3
"For those who believe that
Unpublished

"For those who believe that semi-automatic weapons in the hands of the public is no big deal, despite the fact that these weapons are ONLY used to kill human beings, my question is - why stop there?"

Same poster.....and a completely false statement. I have several semi-automatic weapons that he says are ONLY used to kill humans....yet I have never used them to kill a human....how could that be if the poster actually did research and used credible sources like he accuses the ACES staff of not doing.....Heck for that matter, given the number of semi-automatic weapons there are, if it were true that they are ONLY used to kill humans, there wouldn't be any of us left.

Humble Angela
41338
Points
Humble Angela 01/19/13 - 11:42 am
4
3
I could go on and on with this.
Unpublished

Wow...look at the funny looking human that this semi-automatic rifle was used to kill.....remember they are ONLY used to kill human beings.....so says the authority.

http://media.beta.photobucket.com/user/VolCrew/media/HPIM0213.jpg.html?filters[term]=semi-automatic%20deer%20rifle&filters[primary]=images

carcraft
27123
Points
carcraft 01/19/13 - 11:43 am
8
2
Guns are a health hazard,

Guns are a health hazard, only if you live in a large metropolitan area with strict gun laws and the metropolitan area is ran by Democrats!

Humble Angela
41338
Points
Humble Angela 01/19/13 - 11:43 am
4
2
Ooo A human being with antlers!
Unpublished

http://media.beta.photobucket.com/user/ar-15teacher/media/100_0629.jpg.html?filters[term]=semi-automatic%20deer%20rifle&filters[primary]=images

dichotomy
34491
Points
dichotomy 01/19/13 - 11:49 am
5
1
"The real crime against

"The real crime against children is placing a $50,000 debt on all of them at birth because of the national debt."

That's TODAY. In 4 more years of Obama math, and an uptick or two in the interest rate, it won't take long for that to be $100,000 per newborn. If we were to do a Greek style collapse and the inflation rate went to 100%, which IS possible, it could easily be $1,000,000 per child.

But hey, they can all still live with mom and dad, be on their parent's insurance, and use their Obamaphone to call their friends and cry on their shoulder about how the "rich" people have screwed up the country. That's IF their parents still have a home, and IF their parents still have insurance, and IF the cellphone companies haven't gone out of business in the collapse.

carcraft
27123
Points
carcraft 01/19/13 - 12:26 pm
7
2
I think dicotomy may be on to

I think dicotomy may be on to something! Obama may plan to use the health care much the same way Congress uses the commerce clause? The health care law will becomes the basket in which every regulation conceived my man can be placed for the goof and the will of the people!

grouse
1635
Points
grouse 01/19/13 - 01:38 pm
1
0
Re: editorial. Airplanes are
Unpublished

Re: editorial. Airplanes are rarely used in crime. That has not stopped the formation of the TSA and all its inconveniences (signed into law by Bush). Nothing in the what Obama signed is as bad as the NDAA (signed into law by Obama) or the Patriot Act (signed into law by Bush).

allhans
24030
Points
allhans 01/19/13 - 02:53 pm
6
1
I can't agree with my father

I can't agree with my father that the Dems will win the house in 2014.
By 2014 Americans will have a much better view of what is happening to the country following the policies in place by the Obama administration.
The picture looks bleak now, in another year..watch out...

allhans
24030
Points
allhans 01/19/13 - 02:57 pm
3
2
Chuck Todd, MSNBC, shows how

Chuck Todd, MSNBC, shows how the numbers today are worse than in 2009...Yep! From the mouth of a liberal..even they are learning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdkhEY89dcY&feature=player_embedded

myfather15
55764
Points
myfather15 01/19/13 - 03:04 pm
4
1
When I saw they will lose,

When I say they will lose, I'm going off what I see happening in the republican party. They are fighting just as much within themselves, as with the democrats. They are torn on the fiscal deals, gun control and just about every other issue.

Neal Boortz, Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh have also predicted the republicans lose the house in a landslide in 2014. These guys know a little about politics. Congress has a 9% approval rating, the lowest EVER. When your approval rating is that low, you can expect MAJOR changes in the following election. I supposed they could pull that up, but good luck with the current President and his minions fighting you every step of the way.

As you should know, I certainly hope we don't lose the house, but it doesn't look good. Plus with Obama probably making a couple Supreme Court justice selections, we would be in BIG trouble. It would be just more victories for the left, but more of those are coming. Prophecy tells us this, the falling away will continue and get worse. It's going to happen. But, keep in mind when you are forewarned of the things to come, it isn't a surprise; then you just have to mentally prepare. Always keep in mind; we still have a Savior!!

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