What happened to pro-choice?

Joining a union should be a voluntary decision

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Democrats are pro-choice, all right – but only when it comes to abortion.

Columnist Charles Krauthammer correctly notes that when it comes to where to send your children for their education, or whether to join or pay dues to unions, they’re definitely not pro-choice.

This odd anti-freedom position is on full and ugly display in Michigan, where union mobs have destroyed property and assaulted people in bitter opposition to some pro-freedom legislation in that state.

A Democratic lawmaker there predicted “there will be blood” over the law. President Barack Obama interrupted fiscal cliff negotiations to go and campaign against the state law. And Teamsters President Jimmy Hoffa predicted a “civil war” over the matter.

Don’t be fooled by the ridiculous over-the-top rhetoric or the climate of hatred being created by union supporters. Know the facts.

The commonsense legislation in question, now signed by the governor, essentially does two things: 1) it gives workers the right to refuse to join a union and 2) ends a requirement that non-union workers pay union dues.

That’s it. That’s what the “civil war” is about.

As another observer noted, “The law imposes no limitation on unions’ ability to organize, to engage in collective bargaining, or to strike. It merely forbids them to take money out of the pockets of workers who do not wish to join them.”

Of course, a reasonable person doesn’t need financial incentives to see the wisdom in those two changes. But there can be no doubt that they will increase the likelihood of businesses locating in Michigan. That’s been the experience in Indiana and a growing number of other so-called “right to work” states.

Statistics also show that unemployment is lower in such states – 6.9 percent vs. 8.7 percent.

But the most important facet of this battle is that it’s about freedom.

And union power.

Union bosses know that if workers have a choice of whether to join or pay dues, they may not. They don’t want workers to have that freedom. They even want the government to sanction the taking of non-union workers’ dues.

What other organization in this country has the right to take your money whether you join it or not?

It’s too bad the news networks and even the president of the United States are whipping up this frenzy. They have succeeded in creating a climate of fear and loathing that has resulted in the destruction of property and the assault of a Fox News contributor, who was punched in the face by a union thug.

A few years ago, when they wrongly jumped to the conclusion that a conservative was to blame for the shooting of Congresswoman Gabby Giffords, Democrats on up to the president appealed for civility and a change in the public dialogue. Now look at them. Shameful.

In the glory days of the country’s union movement, organizers were fighting for worker freedom and working conditions. It was a noble movement. Today, the state and federal governments oversee most aspects of worker safety and conditions. And union officials are fighting against worker freedoms.

And they’re doing it violently, and with rhetoric that incites hatred and violence.

If unions are the answer, workers will join them and happily pay dues. But they should not be forced to, in either case.

Here’s the nut of it, though: As Washington Post columnist Ruth Marcus said this week, “unions aren’t going to survive when people have a choice ...”

Where are all the pro-choice people now?

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harley_52
22987
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harley_52 12/14/12 - 10:31 am
7
3
"Humble Angela is nailing everything and everybody this morning.

As is usually the case.

Funny what common sense and truth coupled with a thoughtful, witty, articulate presentation can accomplish.

Humble Angela
41338
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Humble Angela 12/14/12 - 10:31 am
5
1
Liberalism......ideas do
Unpublished

Liberalism......ideas do good......

EEL just backed me up. Thanks for agreeing with me.

harley_52
22987
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harley_52 12/14/12 - 10:36 am
3
1
An IPhone 5 costs about...

...$650 - $850 (unlocked, no contract) depending on the model.

How much would they cost if they were assembled in the USA?

Bizkit
30683
Points
Bizkit 12/14/12 - 10:41 am
3
1
Free market. A right to work

Free market. A right to work state just means the workers have the freedom to join or not join a union.Progressives are all for freedom like gay marriage-why stifle freedom now. Unions aren't forbidden and if they provide what workers need then workers will join in droves-if not they will suffer. Unions were formed for good reason but we all know of the corrupt history too. Least that what Jimmie Hoffa told me the other day. Now we see violence by union workers-which just isn't tolerable. Sounds like the unions are up to their ole tricks. If you are a teacher do you have to join a teachers union-NO, the list goes on.

Humble Angela
41338
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Humble Angela 12/14/12 - 10:47 am
4
3
I would have the guts, EEL,
Unpublished

I would have the guts, EEL, if it were true. I'm just glad you had the guts to admit that liberal ideas don't work unless you can force people to do it.

effete elitist liberal
3112
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effete elitist liberal 12/14/12 - 10:54 am
4
4
Humble

No I did not back you up--not even close. And liberal ideas don't work for whom? The Koch brothers? Employee "free ridders"? Just as with conservative ideas, there are winners and losers.

Humble Angela
41338
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Humble Angela 12/14/12 - 11:00 am
6
2
What is the only legal
Unpublished

What is the only legal difference in a right to work state, and a union controlled state? I'll tell you.........the right of the worker to chose. That's all. They still have the right collectively bargin, strike, and yes...pay union dues.

Bizkit
30683
Points
Bizkit 12/14/12 - 11:02 am
2
2
Not liberal ideas-progressive

Not liberal ideas-progressive ideas. The movement started with T.Roosevelt. The movement (just like unions) started as a good idea to address injustice but since has lost its way. And many progressive are members of the Green Party it isn't synonymous with the Dem party.

KasparHauser
362
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KasparHauser 12/14/12 - 11:03 am
0
1
Reasonable Person be Damned...
Unpublished

First, appeal to a mythical "Reasonable Person" without the context is trite.

Now, onto:
"If unions are the answer, workers will join them and happily pay dues. But they should not be forced to, in either case."

Nothing is THE answer, but all are part of AN answer.

One wonders if the opinion is the same when it comes to paying taxes to fund Duh-Byah-style warmongers or build bridges-to-nowhere in someone else's state.

There are weasels and parasites in every walk of life, not just in too-big-to-fail banks and bought-and-paid-for bond rating agencies.

Passing 'Right to Work' laws is mostly an attempt by the management weasels, who will blow up their own coal mine cutting corners and who will destroy their own bank by giving out bad mortgages, to goad on the worker weasels who want the protections afforded by a union but are too anti-social in their upbringing to contribute to the general welfare of their co-workers. All in a search for short-term gain.

I can see why these weasels triumph so often. Many people from management schools and other institutions devoted to removing ethics from the workplace, except where profitable, are rewarded for the "Greed is Good" example set by such privileged drones as Ayn Rand. Co-opting the "Greed is Good" crowd in the masses leads to even greater short-term profits, too.

If you don't like the union, change the union or change the job. Let's face it, that's comparable to the 'conservative' mantra 'if you don't like the job, change jobs" wannabe managers would chant if this were an issue of a coal mine cutting corners on safety.

Too bad the posters here, who wouldn't have the time or cash to read this or post if Big Bidness had its way years ago, mostly don't know any of the history behind the emergence of the middle class.

Too bad these are people who will throw out unions just because they're too lazy, or indebted to Koch Brother campaign contributions, to ensure the unions aren't corrupt.

JRC2024
8514
Points
JRC2024 12/14/12 - 11:21 am
6
1
Keep it up HA. I like your

Keep it up HA. I like your ideas and have always supported fair wages and the right to join or not join a union. Tech, you are just too liberal for me. Give me the conservative way always.

Really Dude
9
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Really Dude 12/14/12 - 11:32 am
7
2
TechFan

If Democrates are so worried about voter suppression and requiring ID's to vote. Why is it that they don't raise hell at the James Brown turkey give away. You need a photo ID to get a turkey but they don't want to show one to vote. Come on now!!!

grouse
1635
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grouse 12/14/12 - 11:32 am
3
4
Have the legislators put in
Unpublished

Have the legislators put in protections for the worker that make unions unnecessary? No.

ralphinga
1173
Points
ralphinga 12/14/12 - 12:01 pm
2
1
Free at Last

If a union is doing what the workers see as beneficial, they will join and gladly pay dues. All the talk about 'scabs' benefitting from the hard work of the union, without having to pay dues, is truly a discussion about a unions strength to force a strike where the entire workforce must walk off the job. If labor conditions at that work site are really terrible, than enough folks will pay to join the union and have the union bargain with management. Between OSHA, EPA, & the DOL there is little reason to have a union for workplace safety or union work rules. Despite the cries of union agitators, Wal-Mart employees have chosen to remain free of union dues and dictates. Wal-Mart employees know they can go to court in a class action suit without paying a union. Now where did I put those Hostess Twinkies?

effete elitist liberal
3112
Points
effete elitist liberal 12/14/12 - 12:11 pm
2
3
Humble

Like I said, no guts. The political right likes to dress up their anti-unionism in the rhetoric of "freedom" and "choice," but no one is fooled. The elimination of unions is the long-range goal. You can continue to deny it, but you will be either lying to others or, even worse, lying to yourself.

allhans
23524
Points
allhans 12/14/12 - 12:22 pm
4
2
Face it - Unions have out

Face it - Unions have out lived their usefulness.

harley_52
22987
Points
harley_52 12/14/12 - 12:54 pm
4
2
"Face it - Unions have out lived their usefulness."

It's even worse than that. Unions have now become a threat to our government and our economy. Unions (particularly public sector unions) may well be the vehicle that ultimately brings us down.

nofanofobama
6809
Points
nofanofobama 12/14/12 - 01:02 pm
3
2
why is it ok to force a

why is it ok to force a person to join a public union when its taxpayers dollars funding that union...should not all citizens be able to be employed by a state? .i thought we were against monopolies? even FDR saw that it was not right to form public unions....if i'm not happy with the work preformed by say UAW on their vehicles.. i can buy non union toyotas..i am not allowed or cant walk down the street to another DMV ETC....

KSL
126302
Points
KSL 12/14/12 - 01:21 pm
1
3
What are "free ridders"?

What are "free ridders"?

effete elitist liberal
3112
Points
effete elitist liberal 12/14/12 - 01:24 pm
2
4
those darn unions

allhans, harley_52. Looks like Humble has departed stage right still denying the goal of "right-to-work" is to cripple unions. Is either of you prepared to admit it? Hey, it's OK--the truth shall set you free....

nofanofobama
6809
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nofanofobama 12/14/12 - 01:42 pm
2
2
EEL...i cannot answer for her

EEL...i cannot answer for her or each motive of the state legislaters but its simply a question of fairness.. because we cant discrimnate against anybody by law so why non union citizens...whats right about that??????

allhans
23524
Points
allhans 12/14/12 - 04:50 pm
2
2
I don't know what the "goal"

I don't know what the "goal" is, eel.
I say do away with them completely..not cripple..abolish! (:

Bizkit
30683
Points
Bizkit 12/14/12 - 01:50 pm
3
2
Strange logic that they want

Strange logic that they want unions gone. I guess if they have to admit such nonsense then progressives should admit Obama is a black kenyan muslim(like Madonna believes) who wants to send us over the fiscal cliff to collapse the economy and evoke communist rule in the US. Didn't one of his economic advisors admit communism works for China and likely wishes we had it here. Good grief. Keep off the kool-aid-its spiked. Grouse has it (dang we agree again)-if Congress was doin' what they are suppose to do (rather than chase sports and such nonsense) we wouldn't need unions.

Humble Angela
41338
Points
Humble Angela 12/14/12 - 02:23 pm
2
2
"allhans, harley_52. Looks
Unpublished

"allhans, harley_52. Looks like Humble has departed stage right still denying the goal of "right-to-work" is to cripple unions. Is either of you prepared to admit it? Hey, it's OK--the truth shall set you free...."

No.....I just don't feel the need to agree that something is true, simply because YOU say so.....

Humble Angela
41338
Points
Humble Angela 12/14/12 - 02:24 pm
4
2
"Sounds to me a lot like
Unpublished

"Sounds to me a lot like Rush.... She (if "she" is a "she") could sit in as substitute host and Limbaugh-land would be thrilled."

Don't you just love to see how a liberal's logic can be so twisted that they can hurl out what they fully intend to be an insult, and it is actually a compliment.....but they just can't see it.

Humble Angela
41338
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Humble Angela 12/14/12 - 03:16 pm
3
2
So, EEL....you fully admit
Unpublished

So, EEL....you fully admit that it was INTENDED as an insult. It seems that you can't follow the simple rules of debate on this forum. I assumed you were a better man....I stand corrected.

Humble Angela
41338
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Humble Angela 12/14/12 - 03:21 pm
3
2
EEL...show us ONE SINGLE
Unpublished

EEL...show us ONE SINGLE right that is denied by a right to work state....if you have the "guts."

Humble Angela
41338
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Humble Angela 12/14/12 - 03:23 pm
3
2
"based on your brief, often
Unpublished

"based on your brief, often abrasive, scattergun posts here, neither are you."

Brief: as opposed to unnecessarily verbose, in an attempt to appear more intelligent than I am.

abrasive: another word for bringing up facts that someone doesn't like.

scattergun: Most likely referring to many posts with different facts.

dwb619
91112
Points
dwb619 12/14/12 - 04:00 pm
2
1
River @6:16

Hate to tell, but you are wrong. My local doesn't have a picture of "The Leader" on the wall.In fact, I have been a member since 1971, and there has never been a picture of the the president on any of the walls.

Conservative Man
5430
Points
Conservative Man 12/14/12 - 05:52 pm
1
2
Liberals love choice.....

....until you make a choice THEY don't like..

KSL
126302
Points
KSL 12/14/12 - 06:37 pm
0
1
H A

Nailed it, indeed.

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