Scouts' honor

Don't impose politically correct conformity on proud youth organization

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Conventional wisdom – which is often neither of those things – has it that social conservatives are intolerant.

But it’s the politically correct crowd that today is increasingly seeking to punish those with traditional values.

They tried to hurt Chick-fil-A financially when one of its senior officers merely stood up for man-woman marriage in an interview. Some big-city officials even tried to assert that the restaurant would be banned from their towns – even while they welcomed many other businesses, churches and other institutions that also believe in traditional marriage.

Of course, the attempt to injure a good and civic-minded family business backfired; it only inspired more people to eat there.

Now shipping company UPS’s philanthropic arm has decided to stop giving to the Boy Scouts of America because of the youth organization’s ban on gay Scout leaders.

In other words, if your organization doesn’t conform to my organization’s view of what social policy should be, you’re off the island.

How sad for America and its youth. Now, organizations that don’t conform to politically correct doctrines are being shunned.

By extension, organizations that adhere to traditional principles are being expected to change those ideals in order to be socially acceptable. The message is, you can believe whatever you like – as long as you believe what we believe.

Companies are obviously free to associate with whomever they see fit.

Upstanding organizations such as the Boy Scouts no longer have that right, apparently.

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itsanotherday1
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itsanotherday1 11/19/12 - 02:04 pm
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I think a lot of the

I think a lot of the confusion and suspicion comes from the FACT ( I have looked this up before for the same argument, but don't have the inclination for that kind of digging now) that:

1. A high percentage of pedophiles are also homosexual.
2. A low percentage of homosexuals are also pedophiles.

Think about it, those two statements are not mutually exclusive as homosexuals outnumber pedophiles by a large margin. That said, there is room to argue that pedophilia RATES may not differ much between homosexuals and heteros. I won't argue that either way because I've never seen the research.

dichotomy
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dichotomy 11/19/12 - 02:02 pm
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EEL...Well, I'm not a

EEL...Well, I'm not a christian so I really didn't care. The point is that there are "studies" and "statistics" to back up all sides of an issue. These just happen to fit my gut instincts and my version of common sense. And, as ususal, anything that doesn't support the ultra left liberal view must be "rabidly far right". Well, I'm as about as much as a middle of the roader on most of these hot button social issues as you can get but not putting male homosexuals in charge of Boy Scounts was the right decision as far as I am concerned.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 11/19/12 - 02:05 pm
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"I contend that any adult

"I contend that any adult male who's object of sexual activity revolves around young males is a homosexual regardless of what lifestyle he is leading for public consumption."

EEL, are you saying that an adult male who's object of sexual attraction revolves around young male children and young male adults ISN't a homosexual???

effete elitist liberal
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effete elitist liberal 11/19/12 - 02:26 pm
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ICL

yes, but don't believe me, do the research....

effete elitist liberal
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effete elitist liberal 11/19/12 - 02:27 pm
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3
rabid

"anything that doesn't support the ultra left liberal view must be "rabidly far right"...

No, not "anything." But the frc IS a rabidly far right group.

F4therTime
4656
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F4therTime 11/19/12 - 03:19 pm
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Ummmm you do realize
Unpublished

That even though gays have been never been allowed to lead or participate in the BSA (or the Catholic Church) you still have instances of child molestation. In fact so many that they have been covered up for years and are now costing at least one of these organizations lots of money. I don't care what your sexual orientation is...I don't know and I don't care, but the one thing I do know is this. It's not the homosexual leaders of either of these organizations that you have to worry about. It's the ones that hide behind heterosexuality and use these organizations as a hunting ground to use the innocent for their deviant purposes. That has nothing to do with anyone being a homosexual. It has more to do with using the issue of homosexuality to further someone's agenda. My point being is this...if you want a PRIVATE organization you can exclude whomever you want (see the Augusta National for reference). When you recieve tax dollars and public money you cannot. Doesn't matter what your morals are or aren't you cannot impose those on others who do not agree with you.

dichotomy
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dichotomy 11/19/12 - 03:39 pm
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EEL....."But the frc IS a

EEL....."But the frc IS a rabidly far right group."

But being a rabidly far right (or left) group does not make them wrong on any given issue. I readily admitted I referenced this article because they gave some facts and statistics that supported what I believe in this one case, on which I had already formed my opinion based on my gut instincts and my logic. I suspect many people spout their opinions and then seek some internet study, data, or article that supports their opinion and you can find something to support anything nowadays.

The Supreme Court agreed with the Scouts, UPS has the right to vote with their money, and I, given relatively equal price and convenience, will ship a lot more things FEDEX unless I find that they too have stuck their corporate foot in their social issue mouth. I'm sure you will favor UPS.

allhans
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allhans 11/19/12 - 03:52 pm
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Comical? I find it anything

Comical? I find it anything but. Sick humor maybe...

Little Lamb
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Little Lamb 11/19/12 - 04:09 pm
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Diversion

Burninater posted:

. . . other people's genitals and how they use them with other consenting adults is. . . .

We were not talking about consenting adults. We were talking about Boy Scouts (and Cub Scouts) being led by homosexual Scout leaders.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 11/19/12 - 04:11 pm
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EEL, are you saying that an

EEL, are you saying that an adult male who's object of sexual attraction revolves around young male children and young male adults ISN'T a homosexual???

EEL response: "yes, but don't believe me, do the research...."

Well EEL according to the definition of what a Homosexual is " A person who is sexually attracted to people of their own sex." seems to me this is pretty self explanatory and looks like you are WRONG.

myfather15
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myfather15 11/19/12 - 04:25 pm
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Again, another thread where

Again, another thread where the conservatives are trying to use common sense to rationalize with far leftists. Yes, I'm guilty of it myself sometimes but that's also why I don't post on the AC near as much as I used too. I get tired of arguing with people that possess absolutely zero common sense.

Just like this argument about Sandusky. Someone hear is actually trying to say Sandusky is STRAIGHT, although every one of his victims were male youth. Ooooh, I'm sure they will try to guide me to some website of the higher educated, that explains that pedophiles and sexual offenders aren't gay just because they choose victims of the same sex. I guess since he was married he is bi-sexual, huh? But this person didn't claim he is bi-sexual in their post, they said he is STRAIGHT. This is exactly what drives me up the wall with liberals. They try to over explain/over analyze everything. Then they tell us we need to also or we aren't educated enough to understand. We are just stupid simpletons who need them to think for us. Sorry, but when a MAN molests numerous little BOYS, I wouldn't consider him straight, AT ALL!!!

burninater
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burninater 11/19/12 - 04:29 pm
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LL. Where's the diversion?

LL. Where's the diversion? What a person does with their genitals with other consenting adults has nothing to do with leadership capabilities.

Childish adults obsessed with other peoples' genitals may think so, but luckily society as a whole is generally getting better at growing up and keeping their sex-obsessed noses out of other peoples' business.

burninater
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burninater 11/19/12 - 04:38 pm
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Apparently Mr. Moores feels

Apparently Mr. Moores feels that referring to adults obsessed with how consenting adults use their genitals as "childish" is potentially offensive to some of the readers of the Chronicle.

My apologies to any and all readers who believe that obsessing about how consenting adults use their genitals is a mature behavior.

InChristLove
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InChristLove 11/19/12 - 04:38 pm
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(burninater) "Childish adults

(burninater) "Childish adults obsessed with other peoples' genitals " Ohh, nice way to politely insult someone.

(burninater) "What a person does with their genitals with other consenting adults has nothing to do with leadership capabilities."

I beg to differ. When someone's conduct (whether sexual or not) goes against what I believe to be morally proper, then I'd say their leadership capabilities faulter some. If my son is involved with an organization/school where I feel the leader is not promoting the best moral conduct then I do believe their influence on an young impressionable mind is questioned.

This would be no different than if my daughter was in an organization/school where a female teacher's sexual conduct was less than proper and moral. Sure wouldn't want a hussie teaching my daughter moral characteristics and leadership if she's not representing it herself.

Same with a son who's scout leader/teacher/coach is not living up to the standards of moral characteristic that our family lives by.

burninater
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burninater 11/19/12 - 05:04 pm
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ICL, I fully understand your

ICL, I fully understand your position.

However, have no doubts that one person's "morally proper" is another's obsession with how consenting adults utilize their genitals. These two stances are irreconcilable it seems.

The beauty of a free country is that the BSA can choose one stance, and UPS can choose not to fund that stance. That the ACES would seek to curtail that freedom is unsurprising.

grouse
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grouse 11/19/12 - 05:54 pm
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How hypocritical and
Unpublished

How hypocritical and dishonest the Chronicle is! "...one of its senior officers [the owner's son and president] merely stood [no, they have contributed to anti-gay-rights groups]up for man-woman marriage in an interview." Then, they bash UPS for standing up for what they believe in...!

harley_52
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harley_52 11/19/12 - 06:03 pm
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"The beauty of a free country....

....is that the BSA can choose one stance, and UPS can choose not to fund that stance. That the ACES would seek to curtail that freedom is unsurprising."

I agree with your first sentence above. I would add, however, that part of that same beauty is that I can/will consider UPS's decision to influence my choice in shippers next time I have a package to ship.

As to your second sentence above, I find it both amusing and typical the way you choose to mischaracterize the ACES' comments on this issue. They are not trying to "curtail" UPS's "freedom" here at all (as you claim), but merely lamenting the choice made by UPS in particular and what's happened to American society in general. A position with which I most heartily agree.

burninater
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burninater 11/19/12 - 06:30 pm
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ACES: "Companies are

ACES: "Companies are obviously free to associate with whomever they see fit.
Upstanding organizations such as the Boy Scouts no longer have that right, apparently."

Me: The beauty of a free country is that the BSA can choose one stance, and UPS can choose not to fund that stance. That the ACES would seek to curtail that freedom is unsurprising.

Harley: " I find it both amusing and typical the way you choose to mischaracterize the ACES' comments on this issue."
-------
Harley, I see how you are reading this. This is how I read it:

The ACES explicitly states that the rescinding of funding by UPS creates a situation wherein the BSA has lost the right of free association. By trying to cast this as such, the ACES is making the case that the BSA is being denied a basic constitutional right by UPS' funding decision, implying that the funding decision is the cause of this loss of a protected right. Actions that prevent others from exercising their constitutional rights are, by definition, acts to be curtailed.

Perhaps there is a compromise position here, Harley. Perhaps I am as correct in saying the ACES seeks to curtail UPS' freedom as the ACES is correct in saying the BSA has lost the right of free association.

itsanotherday1
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itsanotherday1 11/19/12 - 06:52 pm
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@Harley

"agree with your first sentence above. I would add, however, that part of that same beauty is that I can/will consider UPS's decision to influence my choice in shippers next time I have a package to ship."

Yep Harley, that freedom to support whom you choose does cut both ways doesn't it?

harley_52
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harley_52 11/19/12 - 07:28 pm
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I Spent...

...about five years in the Boy Scouts in the mid-late 50s. My training, associations, and experiences as a Cub Scout/Boy Scout were important to my values and ethics ever since. I never heard the slightest suggestion that there was any homosexual/child molesting activity around my groups and I would have quit (or my parents pulled me out) immediately if there had been.

Homosexuality and child molesting are totally contrary to what the Boy Scouts used to stand for. Both are deviant, anti-social behavior and injurious to the traditional American family which used to be the fundamental building block of our society.

That is before "progressives" became so influential.

burninater
9693
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burninater 11/19/12 - 08:03 pm
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Really Harley? Progressives

Really Harley? Progressives want to introduce child molestation to the Boy Scouts?

Do people HONESTLY believe this rubbish?

myfather15
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myfather15 11/19/12 - 08:38 pm
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1
Not necessarily, but hard

Not necessarily, but hard line leftists don't believe in judging an individuals personal decisions, no matter what that decision is. That may not be condoning it, but it certainly isn't condemning it either. Ask NAMBLA, considered by many to be a legitimate left wing organization.

harley_52
23959
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harley_52 11/19/12 - 09:07 pm
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"Do people HONESTLY believe this rubbish?"

I can't speak for anybody other than myself, but I HONESTLY believe it.

And there's ample evidence to substantiate that belief. Myfather15 mentions NAMBLA and there's no doubt "progressives" (ACLU) openly support their agenda.

Progressives openly support (even flaunt and celebrate) open homosexuality throughout society. They don't believe any aspect of sexual immorality should be discouraged.

I think my position is reasoned and substantiated.

GiantsAllDay
9865
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GiantsAllDay 11/19/12 - 10:40 pm
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In 100 years

In 100 years people will read this thread and look at it they same way we look at the Salem witch trials. They will conclude that the majority of augusta, GA sided with tradition rather than facts and reason. That in itself, is rather sad.

InChristLove
22481
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InChristLove 11/20/12 - 07:34 am
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(Father4Time) "My point being

(Father4Time) "My point being is this...if you want a PRIVATE organization you can exclude whomever you want (see the Augusta National for reference). When you recieve tax dollars and public money you cannot. Doesn't matter what your morals are or aren't you cannot impose those on others who do not agree with you."

Oh yes they can. Every day, secular morals are imposed on Christians who follow Christian morals. It is just the way it is and will always be until Christ returns. Christians deal with secular immorality every day (just look around) but you let a Christian bring up something they feel is improper and mercy we are met with a barrage of criticism, insult, and accusations.

F4therTime
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F4therTime 11/20/12 - 08:14 am
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ICL
Unpublished

It should work both ways...unfortunately it doesn't

David Parker
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David Parker 11/20/12 - 10:01 am
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1
"the traditional American

"the traditional American family ... used to be the fundamental building block of our society"

I always thought it was sweat and a pure heart, WOW was I off the mark. So everybody who doesn't fit within the "traditional" template is dead weight? or worse right?

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