Weapon of mass distraction

In gay marriage flip-flop, Obama again opts for political expediency

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Chalk up another huge election-year distraction – but this time, one with lasting and uncertain implications.

Instead of debating our government’s unsustainable spending, and the danger of crashing the currency and falling into Europe’s black hole of roiling debt, or discussing how to create a new economy that leads to job growth, we’re talking about gay marriage.

However awkwardly the Obama administration got into the gay marriage arena – through Vice President Joe Biden’s getting embarrassingly out in front of his equivocating president – it’s still a useful distraction from his mournful record on the economy, energy, jobs and more.

The focus should be on reducing the deficit, growing jobs and making our nation safe. Period. But here we go again down the Boulevard of Tangents.

The president also is being disingenuous, at best, when he claims that his years-long “evolution” in thinking on gay marriage just happened to end right in-between Biden’s remarks and a star-studded fundraiser in Hollywood – and all in time to shore up his liberal base for the election.

And when he wants you to believe it’s a states’ rights issue – well, that’s the biggest joke since the last White House Correspondents Dinner. When has he ever been in favor of states’ rights? The cold, hard truth is, we’ve rarely seen a president with a dimmer view of states’ rights: His administration is currently suing several states over their immigration enforcement laws and their voter ID laws, and his National Labor Relations Board tried to prevent South Carolina from bringing in a Boeing plant. Oh, and his health-care act ignited a full-blown rebellion of more than half the states.

In addition, Mr. Obama
famously decided not to enforce the federal Defense of Marriage Act, which grants states express authority not to recognize gay marriages from other states.

Nor is it as if Mr. Obama has only changed his mind since opposing gay marriage in the 2008 election cycle. Frankly, he has merely said whatever was politically expedient at the time. In 1996 when running for the Illinois Senate, he told a Chicago newspaper, “I favor legalizing same-sex marriages, and would fight efforts to prohibit such marriages.”

That’s not in the least bit equivocal.

Then, in 1998, he was “undecided.”

Then, in 2004, he said, “I am a fierce supporter of domestic-partnership and civil-union laws. I am not a supporter of gay marriage ...”

Then, facing a nationwide electorate in 2008, he flat-out opposed gay marriage.

Somehow or another, his view “evolved” from favoring gay marriage to being undecided to being mostly against it to opposing it and then, suddenly on Wednesday, to supporting it again.

That’s not just a flip-flop or two. That’s a Slinky slinking down a stairway.

Ask yourself this: What happens when push comes to shove and someone is trying to force a church or individual opposed to gay marriage to perform, host or recognize one? Do you trust that this administration, if given a second and final term, wouldn’t go to court – as it has with a number of sovereign states – to force someone to participate in a ceremony or recognize an institution he or she finds morally objectionable?

And what happens when someone goes to court to challenge one of the 30 state prohibitions against gay marriage?
It seems clear he won’t hesitate to go to battle against such states.

Though Mr. Obama’s personal views seem to change with the prevailing winds, his administration’s record is clear: Political correctness wins out over religious freedom every time. Just look at the contraception issue, in which the administration has tried to force birth control and even abortion pills on religious entities that oppose them.

Moreover, the president’s hastily thrown-together pronouncement this week is tinkering with an institution – marriage – that has been a cornerstone of human societies for all of recorded history. How can one possibly know all the repercussions? A decline in traditional marriage, for instance, already has directly led to increases in poverty and other social ills.

But heck, as long as there may be votes in it – and it diverts attention away from the state of the Union.

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InChristLove
22473
Points
InChristLove 05/11/12 - 03:01 pm
1
2
triller n manilla

Much ado about nothing!

The Stafford debate is more rhetoric than substance. If the rate on the subsidized Stafford loan program does double, as scheduled, to 6.8 percent this summer, very little will happen.

In fact, students who borrow through this program will ultimately end up paying only about $6 a month extra for one year of loans. And the rate increase won’t affect previous loans, only new loans borrowed for the 2012-13 school year.

Let’s look more closely at what’s on the table. The proposals that Congress has been debating would extend the 3.4 percent interest rate for only one year. If a student borrowed the average subsidized Stafford loan ($3,357) at 6.8 percent for the next school year, the higher interest rate would boost the borrower’s debt burden by $761 over a 10-year repayment period. Even if the interest rate doubles, the monthly payment on the subsidized Stafford loan would increase by only about one-sixth.

Techfan
6461
Points
Techfan 05/11/12 - 03:04 pm
2
0
I think Obama had to stick

I think Obama had to stick with a lot of policies he didn't like due to all of the "he's a Muuslim from Kenya" bull.

Bizkit
31329
Points
Bizkit 05/11/12 - 03:08 pm
2
0
Oh yeah Ga Tech. I only went

Oh yeah Ga Tech. I only went to UGA a while and never completed a degree there because I was wasted the whole time-LOL. I was a big Allman Brothers fan and even though what I hear of the present version sounds great without Duane Allman and Berry Oakely they will never be the same. I moved from rhythm and blues to rock and southern rock to fusion and jazz. I still love about all genre except I am not a big country fan. I love there are so many rockers rocking. Reminds me of that Jethro Tull album-Too old to rocknroll but too young to die.

Techfan
6461
Points
Techfan 05/11/12 - 03:16 pm
1
0
Since states have cut so much

Since states have cut so much funding from education (check out initial tuitions for land grand colleges), it wouldn't be a big deal. The cost of going to school is ridiculous. I thought it was high when I went in the 1970's but geez. Coupled with the fact that real wages haven't gone up compared to costs since the '70s and I don't see how they do it. My folks helped, but I flipped many a pizza. When you have a few hundred pages to read a night, it's pretty hard to work a lot of hours and keep up.

harley_52
23272
Points
harley_52 05/11/12 - 03:18 pm
0
0
InChristLove, I'm curious

InChristLove, I'm curious whether you are a supporter of the Stafford Loan Program in the first place and what impact, if any, you think it has had on tuition costs and the quality of students graduating from our colleges and universities?

InChristLove
22473
Points
InChristLove 05/11/12 - 03:18 pm
1
1
See not harm in trying

See not harm in trying Techfan, actually it is a good characteristic. I'm just stating that just because we have an opinion, we do a little bit of research (or what we think is accurrate research), does not always make our opinions fact or statements accurate. Many times what we think is fact is actually opinions and what we think is opinions is actually fact.

Techfan
6461
Points
Techfan 05/11/12 - 03:23 pm
0
0
Allman's were and still are

Allman's were and still are my favorite. Derrek and Warren are great on guitar (Dickey still has too much of a booze and etc. problem I think) and Oteil is a great jazz bassist. Never got to see Duane and Berry. Have been to Rose Hill many times to pay respects. Like old country but can't take this "pop with a twang" (sorry Lady A fans). It;s young and pretty in Nashvile nowadays. Talent is secondary. So much for staying on topic. Oh well.

InChristLove
22473
Points
InChristLove 05/11/12 - 03:31 pm
0
0
Harley_52, I believe that the

Harley_52, I believe that the Stafford Loan is sometimes the only way a student can afford some type of college education. I have known students who do not live with their parents but because they are single, do not have any children, and under the age of 24, they still have to report their parents income on the FASFA, and because their parent’s income is too high but may not be able to assist their student with college expenses, the only way for a student to go to college is to take out a Stafford Loan. As for the quality Harley, I have no statistics on it but I would assume that one who has to work and pay for their education would have a better rate of return than someone whom received their’s for free…..but then that’s just my opinion.

Techfan
6461
Points
Techfan 05/11/12 - 03:32 pm
0
0
I'm totally in favor of

I'm totally in favor of government loans for students for full tuition, etc., with a caveat. Stay away from for profit schools that suck up funding (especially from GI's). I am not, and will never be a "Phoenix". It's a racket that rips off the government and the student. We can't price too many kids of of an education. If we do, we'll have even more uneven income distribution in this country. So long middle class, it's been good to know ya.

harley_52
23272
Points
harley_52 05/11/12 - 03:38 pm
1
0
InChristLove said "

InChristLove said "Many times what we think is fact is actually opinions and what we think is opinions is actually fact."

It's very difficult to differentiate between fact and opinion sometimes, especially when attempting to use information found on the internet to validate/disprove what you think, or what somebody else has said. It's pretty easy to prove, or disprove, just about anything by finding internet links which, when taken together, appear to support both sides of any issue. It can be an exercise in futility, if you let it.

So can be attempting any sort of reasonable "discussion" on these boards, or others like them. Too many posters are pure ideologues, not really interested in "robust and respectful conversation," but rather stuffing their agenda driven opinions down everybody else's throats.

harley_52
23272
Points
harley_52 05/11/12 - 04:02 pm
1
0
InChristLove said "I have

InChristLove said "I have known students who do not live with their parents but because they are single, do not have any children, and under the age of 24, they still have to report their parents income on the FASFA, and because their parent’s income is too high but may not be able to assist their student with college expenses, the only way for a student to go to college is to take out a Stafford Loan."

I've known some like that myself. One of them was me and two others were my daughters. None took out a loan funded with federal tax dollars. All worked while a student and both daughters received competitively awarded scholarships.

It is my opinion that federal loans to college students are largely responsible for grossly inflated tuition costs and outrageous salaries paid to college administrators and professors. I think a fair analogy can be made to the cost of medicine and health care.

In my view, students should work their way through college thereby earning some valuable job experience as well as an appreciation for the value of money and the importance of not wasting their time as a college student.

InChristLove
22473
Points
InChristLove 05/11/12 - 04:06 pm
0
0
I have to agree with you

I have to agree with you Harley (3:38pm) but wondering if you are subtly trying to make a point or just making statements in general. I would hope that I do not fall into the category of being unable to have a resonable discussion.

harley_52
23272
Points
harley_52 05/11/12 - 04:21 pm
0
0
InChristLove said

InChristLove said "...wondering if you are subtly trying to make a point or just making statements in general. I would hope that I do not fall into the category of being unable to have a resonable discussion."

Actually, I'm both expressing my opinions AND trying to make a point. (Actually, several opinions and several points.)

In my opinion, you are one of those who can disagree without being disagreeable and quite articulate in expressing your views. I enjoy reading your posts whether I agree, or not.

InChristLove
22473
Points
InChristLove 05/11/12 - 04:25 pm
0
0
Well thank you....guess momma

Well thank you....guess momma taught me well. :)

Bizkit
31329
Points
Bizkit 05/11/12 - 04:49 pm
0
0
I agree Tech the cost of

I agree Tech the cost of school is ridiculous-tuition and books. I don't like online courses except upper level courses with more mature students,but still students seem to think courses are just check a list rather than a journey to learning for life. I tell students you need to have a plan and cost-return analysis. If you spend 140K in undergrad and grad debt and then make only 60K a year in your chose occupation your are in for a ride. Also I tell em if you take over 5 years to get your undergrad or over 5 to get a PhD you are likely wasting your time. I tell em now you have to be an A student and stand out in service, research, and other talents-it is such a competitive world. Also they examine your transcripts so everyone wants students who pass a course the first time not the second or third. It is ridiculous. If I was young man in today's environment I don't know if I could compete.

carcraft
25803
Points
carcraft 05/11/12 - 05:26 pm
0
1
I am not infavor of studdent

I am not infavor of studdent loans as they are now structured, that is part of why education is so expansive, people barrow money to pay fir school and then gruduate owning more money than the US government. It is like housing, government guarntees all these loans so people are not on the hook and buy more house than they need . Today they are buying more school than they need. Same principle.

Jake
32530
Points
Jake 05/11/12 - 06:20 pm
0
0
Nice thread

This has been enjoyable reading everyone's comments. carcraft, you normally spell pretty well so you are either posting from a mobile phone keyboard or happy hour has already started at your house.
Bizkit, some things you post I don't quite follow but you say them so well that I can't help but to give you a thumbs up. You do have a way with words.
Don't most of us have preconceived notions and then try to find articles or data to support what we already think to be true?

Bizkit
31329
Points
Bizkit 05/11/12 - 06:27 pm
0
0
The wealth disparity is not

The wealth disparity is not the result of a crime but one contributing factor is a logistical phenomena. Many highly educated working couples who chose careers in a lucrative field like tech, biotech, medicine, etc. end up making over 250K. The wealth disparity will likely continue by ethnicity as the high paying STEM field jobs are going to indians , asians, and other foreigners who often return home. Our American youth are failing miserably in the STEM fields and there seems little interest-which if this continues will be disastrous. I know many mathematicians who are about as bright an individual as you will ever meet but as a career it stinks in income compared to medicine which isn't even an academic degree it is a professional degree like lawyers. I am more educated than my wife yet she makes more. If we were paid in sweat I have a number of friends who would be millionaires, but the culture and economy is driving this selective thirst so certain career are more lucrative. What there is really is only what 4-5000 over a million Americans but of them 1500 or so haven't paid taxes which seems ridiculous. My question is with our economy and wealth there isn't more people over a million -are we losing our productiveness and can't compete or what? Most of the over 250K pay around 25% which is a much larger group. From what I can tell from all the people I know of about every occupation you can think of blue or white collar-everyone is hurting. Taxes are lower now than when Bush was Pres but I just don't think raising them now is a good idea when everyone is hurting. Dang seems like water boarding and torture to beat people when their down.

Retired Army
17512
Points
Retired Army 05/11/12 - 10:19 pm
1
1
Student Loans

Carcraft posts:

"I am not infavor of studdent loans as they are now structured, that is part of why education is so expansive, people barrow money to pay fir school and then gruduate owning more money than the US government. It is like housing, government guarntees all these loans so people are not on the hook and buy more house than they need . Today they are buying more school than they need. Same principle."

Dear God! Ya just can't make up stuff like this. This really and truly the man's need of a student loan being broadcast to all of us. And, you know what else. I'll guarantee that Carcraft will defend this. Tell us that you weren't educated in Georgia please. We already get a bad enough rap.

Techfan
6461
Points
Techfan 05/12/12 - 05:22 am
0
0
Biz: Remember that most of

Biz: Remember that most of the time income is reported as AGI. There is no telling how much some of these folks made before all of the deductions.

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