A society out of control

Murders prompt painful questions on devolving of our culture

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Only time will tell whether Joshua T. Jones, accused of two murders over the weekend, may be criminally ill or something even worse.

But either way, society has some explaining to do.

If the 26-year-old is as mentally ill as he appeared to be in court Monday – shaking head, dazed look, incoherent – then you have to wonder how it got to the point where he would shoot his pregnant girlfriend, Cayce Vice, and Aiken police officer Sandra Rogers. Were there warning signs that were ignored? How did he get his hands on a gun?

And, of course, we ought to discuss the dearth of services for those with serious mental illnesses and their family members, who are variously besieged by a lack of help or are negligent in not seeking what help there is.

Others in the area who believe they may be dealing with a severe mental illness – in themselves or those around them – need to take it seriously and seek help immediately. A possible first step: Call 2-1-1, a referral line for social services administered by the United Way of the CSRA.

If, on the other hand, it’s not mental illness, then we’re dealing with undiluted evil. In this instance, too, we have some probing, painful questions to ask and answer.

Even if this case is a result of mental illness, many other outrages and tragedies we’ve seen over recent years are simply the harvest of a society out of control: people seeking buffets of gratification without accountability; children being raised by daytime television and tossed about from one dysfunctional live-in arrangement to the next; illicit drugs making parents so incapable of handling their children that a grandparent or foster parent must step in; and on an on.

Whichever societal ill pertains in this case – and perhaps there is more than one at play – the tragedy is a reminder that we’ve got plenty of ills to deal with that we just flat-out aren’t. Often, that’s because the media and political correctness have choked off such discussions. They try to paint people with strong values as “extreme” and even dangerous to the body politic – which is ludicrous. As if alternative lifestyles aren’t dangerous!

One supposes that people of principle are expected to mind their own business these days. Funny thing, though: “Other people’s business” often ends up getting innocent people killed. Imagine that; ignoring society’s ills doesn’t make them go away.

Aiken Public Safety Master Cpl. Sandra Rogers was one of those innocent victims of a society that’s increasingly sick. She spent nearly three decades protecting that society, too.

That such a good person can be struck down in such a callous, senseless and cruel manner – the third law enforcement officer the area has lost in the past few months – is so wrong on so many levels. A conviction in the case can go only so far in setting things right again. The rest will be up to us.

Officer Rogers’ funeral is Wednesday. A memorial to her, on the other hand, should be a better society for the next officer to protect.

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Bizkit
30591
Points
Bizkit 01/31/12 - 12:30 pm
0
0
I posit the increase in

I posit the increase in violence is associated with the progessive movement. Violence and bullying are increasing in the schools.Lets take a parsimonious look at the Tea party vs OWS-which has displayed more violence? Did yall see the middle schoolers gang up and beat the crap out of a female classmate on a bus. It seems there is an epidemic of bullying and violence in our youth propagated by all the touchy feely crap. Corporal punishment being abandoned in schools leaves a vacuum of hoodlums running a class. I always liked Bizarro's approach to No Child Left Behind act and that is the Beat Yo Child's Behind Act. I wager more than half the yahoos I grew up with would have ended up in prison if not for their coaches and parent beating their behinds. I know all the studies say violence begats violence but the study was probably some mambi panzi progressive sociologist. It should be manditory for School teachers to possess tasers or a 357 magnum. O.K. set the bait-now wait for the hook. hee,hee,hee.

copperhead
1035
Points
copperhead 01/31/12 - 12:43 pm
0
0
harley_52,I would rather die

harley_52,I would rather die defending myself than begging for my life! I can draw,fire,AND HIT a target in less than 1 second though.

specsta
6355
Points
specsta 01/31/12 - 01:09 pm
0
0
Let's face the

Let's face the facts:

Injuries from firearms are one of the top ten causes of death in the U.S.

The US has over 30,000 firearm deaths each year, and 13,000 of those are homicides.

The US leads the world in firearm deaths.

There were approximately 7500 firearms deaths, in the combined TOTAL of 22 other countries, such as Australia, Italy, France and Canada.

Canada bans all types of handguns. There were approximately 179 homicides by firearm in Canada in 2009. In the US, there were 13,000.

Those are just a few quick facts about Americans and their love for guns. More guns equals more homicides. Even the "home defense" jargon doesn't add up. If a handgun is in the home, it is more likely to be used in domestic violence incidents, suicides, and accidental shootings, including injuries to children.

Less guns in this society would equal fewer homicides. It's just simple math.

countyman
19707
Points
countyman 01/31/12 - 01:15 pm
0
0
Am I missing something? Crime

Am I missing something? Crime especially violent(murder, rape, armed robbery, etc) is at the lowest point in the US since the 1990's..

The media needs ratings, and suburbanites who stay in their little cul de sacs are the perfect crowd to scare..

If some people want to bring up race, then you can't forget which group of poor people got warehoused in american cities.. What people usually have to use public defendants versus hiring their own lawyer... How the media made crack a 'epidemic' and several people got alot more time in prison than people using cocaine.. How in 2012 meth is now a 'epedimic', but for some reason america doesn't want the harsh penalties similar to crack in the previous decades... There's a major problem when white men with criminal records get the same treatment as black males without one in the job market..

Cdr4500
20
Points
Cdr4500 01/31/12 - 01:20 pm
0
0
"What gun control would you
Unpublished

"What gun control would you propose, that would pass a 2nd Amendment challenge, and would have prevented him from getting a gun?"

The gun control I'd like to see:

1. Owners must be licensed and have guns registered with local law enforcement.
2. No automatic weapons, for any civilians, ever.
3. Close loopholes allowing private sales at gun shows.
4. All first time gun owners should be required to take a gun safety course and be certified in it. Should have recertification every 5 years.
5. Unfortunately it creates major conflict with HIPA laws, but ideally, I'd love to see psychological clearance as well as criminal.

So how does is that trying to take your guns away?

Think about the Second Amendment. When the Founding Fathers cooked that up, they had no idea where military technology was headed. If one interpreted the Constitution loosely enough, then they should be able to have an ICBM launcher in their backyard! But must sane people realize that that is insane, and we don’t allow it. Let's face it...some gun control IS needed.

Cdr4500
20
Points
Cdr4500 01/31/12 - 01:23 pm
0
0
Oh and please don't say "If
Unpublished

Oh and please don't say "If we ban guns then people will find other ways to kill"...yes that's partially true BUT...

America has more handgun deaths per capita than any other country on the earth. And more than half of these are either suicides, family disputes. or accidents. People get drunk, they get angry, they get depressed, and someone reaches for a gun and its all over. And every year, tragically, young children decide to "play with Daddy's gun" with predicable results. Gun proponents would argue that "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" and of course, that is true.

But a gun produces a very sudden and violent death. You attack your spouse with a knife or a bat, at least there is a chance she can duck or run away - leave the house, find a neighbor, call the police. But a bullet travels at many times the speed of sound. You can't duck a bullet (like they do on television). It is a decision that can be made instantaneously and have very bad permanent results.

specsta
6355
Points
specsta 01/31/12 - 01:47 pm
0
0
Very good points, Cdr4500...

Very good points, Cdr4500...

bjphysics
36
Points
bjphysics 01/31/12 - 01:52 pm
0
0
Cdr4500 “The gun control I'd

Cdr4500 “The gun control I'd like to see:

1. Owners must be licensed and have guns registered with local law enforcement.
2. No automatic weapons, for any civilians, ever.
3. Close loopholes allowing private sales at gun shows.
4. All first time gun owners should be required to take a gun safety course and be certified in it. Should have recertification every 5 years.
5. Unfortunately it creates major conflict with HIPA laws, but ideally, I'd love to see psychological clearance as well as criminal.”

No on 1, for most people 2 is already true (requires special ATF license), yes on 3,5 and modify HIPA with a gun purchase waiver.

bjphysics
36
Points
bjphysics 01/31/12 - 01:53 pm
0
0
Cdr4500: “…a bullet travels

Cdr4500: “…a bullet travels at many times the speed of sound. You can't duck a bullet (like they do on television).”

That’s true but you can catch a bullet in your teeth, Leroy Green did it in “The Last Dragon”, you can look it up.

harley_52
22936
Points
harley_52 01/31/12 - 02:01 pm
0
0
Copperhead said "I would

Copperhead said "I would rather die defending myself than begging for my life! I can draw,fire,AND HIT a target in less than 1 second though."

Good for you. So why were you talking about "taking a gun from someone?"

harley_52
22936
Points
harley_52 01/31/12 - 02:02 pm
0
0
Bjphysics said "2. No

Bjphysics said "2. No automatic weapons, for any civilians, ever."

Define "automatic weapon," please.

bjphysics
36
Points
bjphysics 01/31/12 - 02:12 pm
0
0
harley, I did not write what

harley, I did not write what you quoted, I wrote "for most people 2 is already true (requires special ATF license)..."

I think the law governing automatic weapons ownership is fine the way it is. Automatic means hold the trigger and the next round will be “automatically” loaded into the chamber, the firing pin will be depressed, the next bullet will fly, and this process will repeat itself until you stop holding down the trigger. Is there another definition?

iLove
626
Points
iLove 01/31/12 - 02:15 pm
0
0
The REAL elephant in the
Unpublished

The REAL elephant in the room.

Countyman said: "Am I missing something? Crime especially violent(murder, rape, armed robbery, etc) is at the lowest point in the US since the 1990's..

The media needs ratings, and suburbanites who stay in their little cul de sacs are the perfect crowd to scare..

If some people want to bring up race, then you can't forget which group of poor people got warehoused in american cities.. What people usually have to use public defendants versus hiring their own lawyer... How the media made crack a 'epidemic' and several people got alot more time in prison than people using cocaine.. How in 2012 meth is now a 'epedimic', but for some reason america doesn't want the harsh penalties similar to crack in the previous decades... There's a major problem when white men with criminal records get the same treatment as black males without one in the job market."

Iresqu
0
Points
Iresqu 01/31/12 - 02:31 pm
0
0
Here we go again...

Here we go again... seriously? MORE gun control? When does criminal control come into the equation? Why don't you just say what's really on your mind? People control like North Korea has, is that what you want? I believe you do. I've got a novel idea... why not prosecute the individual(s) that commit the crimes and not blame the object/device? How many of you gun control zealots want "car control" when a drunk driver kills another person? Where do you stand on that issue? Why not a waiting period before you purchase a car? I think it would be a good idea, that way a person would have a "sober up" period much like the "cooling off" period that gun control advocates want before we can purchase a firearm. And why not a nail clipper control and a waiting period for them as well? They're dangerous weapons too, according to the T.S.A.

My firearms are made from the same materials as my vehicle, furniture, etc.... metal, wood, and plastic. If I park my truck and don't drive it there's no possible way for it to hurt anyone. If I load my gun and leave it on the nightstand and never touch it then guess what happens? NOTHING!!! They both have a common denominator... A HUMAN BEING!!! If there is no human interaction then they'll sit there for eternity. A firearm is only a tool.

I'm going to help you out a little because it seems your emotions are high and intellect low but, READ the U.S. Constitution and The Federalist Papers. Our forefathers believed that we had a fundamental God given right to protect ourselves but most of all to resist a tyrannical government. If you've ever had to call 911 for a law enforcement officer you know how long it takes for them to get to you.... when seconds count the police are only minutes away. I carry my firearm for protection because a cop is too heavy.

harley_52
22936
Points
harley_52 01/31/12 - 02:43 pm
0
0
bjphysics asked "Is there

bjphysics asked "Is there another definition?"

There are those who believe a weapon that can be fired by over and over again by simply pulling the trigger, without cocking a lever, a bolt, or working a pump is also an "automatic weapon" which should be banned as well.

bjphysics
36
Points
bjphysics 01/31/12 - 03:14 pm
0
0
Then they need to brush-up on

Then they need to brush-up on proper terminology.

I think semi-automatics are reasonably effective from a military standpoint but I can see how it might become tiresome in a protracted firefight. However, that is not an issue with zombies; therefore, semi-automatics should be fine in the event of a Zombie Apocalypse.

They can have (one of) my semi-automatics when they pry it from the cold dead hands of the zombie I switched identities with.

adamsapple311
0
Points
adamsapple311 01/31/12 - 03:26 pm
0
0
Specsta, I have a strong

Specsta, I have a strong suspicion that these low lifes making the news with their shooting sprees are NOT right wing conservatives. Just sayin'...

Iresqu
0
Points
Iresqu 01/31/12 - 03:38 pm
0
0
Hey specsta.... the "home

Hey specsta.... the "home defense" jargon doesn't add up? How then do you protect your family and home? Wait... let me guess... you must rely on GOVERNMENT to do it for you! Suggestion for you, do some research on the U.S. Supreme Court ruling that the police do not have a constitutional duty to protect someone.... you may be surprised.

I don't put my safety or my families safety, in the hands of anyone except mine. If you don't have/own a firearm, or believe anyone should, then would you be willing to post a sign in your front yard or on your front door stating so? And don't forget to add your bogus statistics to the sign(s) as well so the criminal element will have a good laugh just before they invade your home. Where did you get those stats anyway? By listening to NPR or maybe reading the Metro Spirit?

I'm 47years old and have handled firearms for 40 of those years. I've served in the U.S. Army, been a police officer, an armed personal security guard, and a firefighter. NEVER, ever, have I had, or any of my family members had, an incident with a firearm that had a possibility of endangering anyone. Why would a parent not let their child learn about the dangers of firearms and teach respect for them? These same parents have no problem with giving their 16 year old a set of keys to a 4,000 pound weapon and turn them loose on the streets though.

Well, if you bet wetting liberals want a utopian society it's never going to happen. Firearms will always be in America and will never go away. There still are Communist countries on this planet that will gladly accept you and your ideology just leave the U.S. Constitution the way it is.

specsta
6355
Points
specsta 01/31/12 - 03:49 pm
0
0
Iresqu wrote: "Here we go

Iresqu wrote: "Here we go again... seriously? MORE gun control? When does criminal control come into the equation."

Here's the problem. When guns are in the home, they are most likely to be used in a domestic squabble or there will be incidents of a child finding it and pulling the trigger or it will be stolen or it will be used in a suicide attempt.

The idea that some masked gunman will burst in your home and therefore you must have a gun to "protect" yourself doesn't make sense. Most robbers prefer to rob when the occupants are not home. Home invasions happen, but not often.

A person is more likely to die in an automobile accident than at the hand of a gunman. We all know someone that has died in a car crash. Very few of us know someone that died due to being shot by a gunman.

Yet, millions of Americans will have a gun in the nightstand for "protection", while going about their day speeding, tailgating, running stop lights and failing to yield. And they get upset at others that do actually follow the road rules. They think they are invincible in a car and vulnerable at home. Very strange.

Cdr4500
20
Points
Cdr4500 01/31/12 - 03:54 pm
0
0
Handguns are one of those
Unpublished

Handguns are one of those items that you would wish you'd have if you really needed it at a particular moment. That is the logic behind handgun ownership. If you are confronted with a burglar, you'd wish you had a handgun! But then again, if you fall off the edge of the Grand Canyon, you'd surely wish you had a parachute, too. Right?

Is buying a parachute (and wearing it at all times) a good idea to prevent a dangerous fall from high places? The question is not as ridiculous as it seems, as the odds of being confronted with a life-and-death situation with a criminal are about the same as you falling from a high place. And the parallels don't end there, either. Carrying a loaded handgun is very inconvenient - as it wearing a parachute all the time. Handguns are expensive - and so are parachutes. And even if you own a handgun, if you don't have it at hand when you need it, it is the same as not having it at all, which also holds true for parachutes. And finally, a handgun misused can be more dangerous to its owner than anyone else - as can a parachute (if you pull the ripcord while on your motorcycle, for example :-P).

So yes, having a handgun could make you feel "safer", but so could wearing a parachute at all times, or a helmet for that matter. But the odds are very long against your ever needing any of these items. In short, buying a handgun for "protection" is not really a cost-effective proposition. Buying a plethora of handguns, rifles, and assault weapons is even a less sound.

TNTHOMSON
2
Points
TNTHOMSON 01/31/12 - 04:07 pm
0
0
I could live with Cdr4500's

I could live with Cdr4500's 'laws' IF additionally:

"Any convicted felon charged with possession of a firearm would automatically forfeit ALL Constitutional rights and be executed within
45 days of being found guilty of said crime".

"Anyone who knowingly transfers a firearm to a convicted felon will be incarcerated for a period of 50-75 years at hard labor without any possibility of parole"

Hard to believe but knives kill more people than guns.........

Cdr4500
20
Points
Cdr4500 01/31/12 - 04:34 pm
0
0
A family friend of ours
Unpublished

A family friend of ours suffered from this delusion that waving a handgun around would be an effective deterrent to crime. To save money, he parked in a very bad part of town and then walked to work, carrying a concealed pistol in his jacket. For the cost of the pistol, he could have paid for a parking space at work for several years. Plus, by bringing the gun to work, he was violating Federal Law.

Anyways, the inevitable happened one night as he walked home in the dark, down an unlit alley in a very bad part of town. Two teenage boys spotted him and decided to give him a hard time and perhaps shake him down for money. The confronted him and he pulled out his handgun and started waving it around.

A funny thing happened. The kids didn't run away like in the movies. Hardened street kids, they had seen guns before, and they realized that the guy really had no idea what he was doing. One distracted him momentarily while the other managed to get the gun away from him. They shot him with his own gun. Dead.(This happened about ten years ago)

Asitisinaug
3
Points
Asitisinaug 01/31/12 - 06:30 pm
0
0
He did a good job of playing

He did a good job of playing mentally ill for the cameras.

bjphysics
36
Points
bjphysics 01/31/12 - 06:34 pm
0
0
CBS News/New York Times Poll.

CBS News/New York Times Poll. Jan. 15-19, 2011. N=1,036 adults nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.

"In general, do you think gun control laws should be made more strict, less strict, or kept as they are now?"

More: 68% Democrats, 42% independents; 27% Republicans

Less: 17% Republicans, 17% Independents, 5% Democrats

Keep same: 53% Republicans, 40% Independents, 25% Democrats

A super majority of each party have opposite opinions on gun accessibility while a significant (57%) of independents side with Republicans.

http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm

bjphysics
36
Points
bjphysics 01/31/12 - 06:42 pm
0
0
List of preventable causes of

List of preventable causes of death; Leading causes in the United States

Annual number of deaths in the United States and causes (total/year; percent of total)

7) Firearms deaths 29,000 1.2% by Suicide: 16,586; homicide: 10,801; Accidents: 776; Legal intervention: 270; Unknown: 230

8) Sexually transmitted infections 20,000 0.8%

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_preventable_causes_of_death

Iresqu
0
Points
Iresqu 01/31/12 - 06:47 pm
0
0
Violate Federal Law by

Violate Federal Law by bringing a firearm to work? Which one(s)? Can you quote it for me or direct me to it? It seems your "friend" is one of those bad criminals since he had a total disregard of the "law". That's why they're criminals, they don't care about laws. Does this "federal law" trump the U.S. Constitution? I'm specifically referring to Article VI, paragraph 2 and Amendment 2 of the U.S. Constitution. If Federal law was able to trump the Constitution then why don't they, the government, just make freedom of speech, religion, and of the press illegal? What's your position on letting the Federal government enter your home without your permission or warrant? "We the People" need to reverse our rectal cranial inversion until we smell fresh air or this country is lost. That 2nd Amendment is the only thing that keeps the others in place... where you going to be without the Constitution? It's there to limit the power of Federal government not limit the power/freedom of the people. How do we protect it without firearms?

bjphysics
36
Points
bjphysics 01/31/12 - 06:48 pm
0
0
Additional information re

Additional information re U.S. deaths per year

Human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) 9,424
Viral hepatitis 7,652
Cannabis (Marijuana) 0

Riverman1
82145
Points
Riverman1 01/31/12 - 06:51 pm
0
0
BJ, so what can we do to

BJ, so what can we do to prevent sexually transmitted diseases?

seenitB4
85139
Points
seenitB4 01/31/12 - 07:07 pm
0
0
Now that's a loaded question

Now that's a loaded question at 551pm......

Stop all sex asap!!

Riverman1
82145
Points
Riverman1 01/31/12 - 07:12 pm
0
0
BJ, you said no one has ever

BJ, you said no one has ever died as a result of marijuana? Heck, I thought I'd died myself one night walking back from this party. I thought I'd never get back to my dorm. Then there was another night I ate 6 frozen dinners without heating them up. Are you sure no one has ever died from that stuff?

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