In defense of self-defense

Where companies should protect their employees, they protect themselves instead

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Pizza delivery companies ought to reconsider prohibiting their employees from defending themselves from robbers and other criminals.

Neither should the courts punish the companies for allowing it.

A pizza delivery man in Wichita, Kan., has reportedly been fired for arming himself and recently firing at a would-be robber. It is a franchise operation, but the pizza corporation does have a policy against employees being armed.

Well, we’re sorry the guy in Wichita got axed, but glad he was armed, because so was the attempted robber, whom the delivery man shot at and apparently missed.

If a company decides, on its own, to prohibit armed employees – and the employees agree – that’s one thing. But you have to know the no-gun policies today are issued out of abject fear of lawsuits by – um, criminals. Nice. So the companies would rather protect themselves financially than have their employees protected from harm? There’s something wrong with this picture.

If the country’s laws don’t already, they need to explicitly immunize companies and employees from lawsuits arising out of employee self-defense.

Whether one arms himself in a dangerous situation should be purely up to that person – not some lawyer sitting in a leather chair in some warm office somewhere.

Comments (101) Add comment
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copperhead
1035
Points
copperhead 12/07/11 - 05:23 am
0
0
People that own or want to

People that own or want to own a gun are evil! Guns should be outlawed or uninvented. There is only one reason to have a gun-to commit crimes.

Brad Owens
5435
Points
Brad Owens 12/07/11 - 05:46 am
0
0
I agree 100% with this ACES

I agree 100% with this ACES position.

draksig
167
Points
draksig 12/07/11 - 07:25 am
0
0
When a pizza company says,

When a pizza company says, "Our delivery drivers are not allowed to carry weapons," a crook hears "Our delivery drivers are easy marks."

seenitB4
132298
Points
seenitB4 12/07/11 - 07:31 am
0
0
The thugs know the delivery

The thugs know the delivery guys aren't armed...so have at it they think....same thing happening to Ga Tech students ....it seems every week a student is robbed near campus.

augusta citizen
10978
Points
augusta citizen 12/07/11 - 07:50 am
0
0
I agree 100% with this

I agree 100% with this position too. No way I would do this job without being able to protect myself.

tinman
35
Points
tinman 12/07/11 - 08:12 am
0
0
Copperhead--you need to wake

Copperhead--you need to wake up! I own weapons and I carry one with me always unless I am going someplace that prohibits weapons; ie, Fort Gordon and other installations. I promise you that I have never and will never pull my weapon out unless it is in defense of myself or my family. And that folks, is guaranteed by the Second Amendment!

bjphysics
36
Points
bjphysics 12/07/11 - 08:16 am
0
0
This thread needs some life;

This thread needs some life; somebody post something about the "evils of private gun ownership, people will only shoot the wrong person, kids will get the gun, wild-wild west, the second amendment doesn’t really mean what it says, blah, blah, blah…"

Where are the irrational, post-Vietnam, anti-gun liberals?

Ask not what this thread can do for you; ask what you can do for this thread.

CobaltGeorge
218114
Points
CobaltGeorge 12/07/11 - 08:36 am
0
0
Your wrong copperhead, "There

Your wrong copperhead, "There is only one reason to have a gun-to commit crimes."

There are TWO reasons.....To kill the S..O..B committing the crime.

TParty
6004
Points
TParty 12/07/11 - 08:57 am
0
0
Ha, I guess I can be devils

Ha, I guess I can be devils advocate, BJphysics!

With all the litigation that happens in this country, there is probably a good reason for the policy from a companies standpoint. I wonder how much liability insurance the company would have to purchase, and money invested in providing gun safety and training to make it a safe and feasible option to protect the company from negligence. It's probably safer for a company to tell their drivers to just hand over the pizza, and what cash they have over to the criminal, rather than risk a possible shootout in a community, it's the same policy that workers at gas/convenience stores abide by. And it's not criminals that will sue, but any bystander who could be hit by a round or two, and any house that has any damage.

I'm curious how many employees at AC can go to work armed.

CobaltGeorge
218114
Points
CobaltGeorge 12/07/11 - 09:27 am
0
0
T-Party..."I'm curious how

T-Party..."I'm curious how many employees at AC can go to work armed."

I know for a fact there are some.

TParty
6004
Points
TParty 12/07/11 - 09:33 am
0
0
Really CG? Employees at AC

Really CG? Employees at AC can walk around their building with a pistol on their hip? Any AC folks want to confirm this, maybe provide some code of conduct or something where it states employees can carry weapons while at work?

Anyone else besides the obvious police officer and security personal allowed to carry weapons at work?

allhans
25543
Points
allhans 12/07/11 - 09:33 am
0
0
Litigation takes precedence

Litigation takes precedence over the life of your employee? Sad times, indeed.

CobaltGeorge
218114
Points
CobaltGeorge 12/07/11 - 09:42 am
0
0
TParty, Who in the hell said

TParty, Who in the hell said "Employees at AC can walk around their building with a pistol on their hip?"

Have you ever heard of a CCW permit. There are many places that allow weapons carried to work.

TParty
6004
Points
TParty 12/07/11 - 09:58 am
0
0
CG- I asked "I'm curious how

CG- I asked "I'm curious how many employees at AC can go to work armed." and you replied "I know for a fact there are some."

I have a CCW, my pistol is on my hip when I carry it. I cannot carry a weapon to work, even with my CCW. That's what I mean by carry, that there is a weapon on your person.

Chillen
17
Points
Chillen 12/07/11 - 10:04 am
0
0
I think all employees in

I think all employees in dangerous positions should be allowed to arm themselves - pizza delivery people, pharmacists, check out clerks, convenience store clerks, realtors, etc.

Life is too short to risk your life for your job.

TParty
6004
Points
TParty 12/07/11 - 10:11 am
0
0
Chillen- If I recall, you're

Chillen- If I recall, you're a business owner, right? Do you hire people? If so, would you permit them to carry a weapon, to arm themselves? If you have an attorney on retainer, you should call them and ask the risks involved in that. Like I said, due to litigation and insurance, you could easily jeopardized everything with that kind of policy.

Chillen
17
Points
Chillen 12/07/11 - 10:26 am
0
0
tparty. You just confirmed

tparty. You just confirmed my suspicions about you. You are NOT a conservative, we just don't think that way.

And to answer your question, if they were in harms way, yes, they could carry a weapon to defend themselves. That's what liability insurance is for.

harley_52
33652
Points
harley_52 12/07/11 - 10:39 am
0
0
chillen said "tparty. You

chillen said "tparty. You just confirmed my suspicions about you. You are NOT a conservative, we just don't think that way."

Eureka!

TParty
6004
Points
TParty 12/07/11 - 10:55 am
0
0
Chillen- I have a ccw, and I

Chillen-

I have a ccw, and I carry my weapon when I'm not at work. I'm all about the second amendment, and I'm serious about gun safety and training.

I also know the rules at my work place, and others- and they cannot carry weapons because of litigation and insurance. Think about all the injuries and self inflicted wounds caused by gun owners- a company wants no part of it. Do it at home, and personal time, but not at work. A company who is in customer service does not want their customers shot, especially by an employee, so they weigh the risks and make the policy for no weapons at the work place.

You can look at my 7:57 comment where I say "Ha, I guess I can be devils advocate".

While being devils advocate, I'm merely suggesting why a company will do what they do. I'm also curious if people at AC carry weapons while at the work place.

And to further this discussion, if pizza delivery boys should carry weapons at work, because it is dangerous, what about Fed Ex people? What about federal government workers at the postal service? Should these people who run up to your door, on private property bring a weapon with them? Would you be okay if people in uniforms without badges knocked on your door with a pistol on their hip?

Just because I don't want to live in the wild west and literally shoot from hip, you suggest I'm not conservative? This is why republicans are seen a joke, so much so that Roger Alies decided to have a "course correction".

CobaltGeorge
218114
Points
CobaltGeorge 12/07/11 - 10:57 am
0
0
My Corp. allows those with a

My Corp. allows those with a CCWP to bring their weapons to work. You can guarantee that a very intense back ground check has been made befor I will hire anyone. We have many female employees that handle large amounts of cash daily and they need to feel they are safe.

Lets take AC for instance, how many time daily do they publish articles that urinate someone off and all it takes is some unstable person to decide to make them eat their words with a weapon. Do you really think that employees in key positions aren't packing, wrong.

Heck, daily on this blog are people that display their dislikes for the AC.

Chillen
17
Points
Chillen 12/07/11 - 11:06 am
0
0
Quite a lengthy defense

Quite a lengthy defense tparty. No Republican or Conservative would say that "republicans are seen as a joke". First, its simply not true. Second, who would insult themselves?

Back to the editorial. ANYONE in harms way should be allowed to carry a weapon to defend themselves. Provided they pass the concealed carry background check. If they can't, well their past mistakes might catch up with them.

I have zero problem with anyone carrying a weapon - provided they are doing it legally. THEY are not the ones running around willy nilly shooting everyone.

CobaltGeorge
218114
Points
CobaltGeorge 12/07/11 - 11:04 am
0
0
I have carried legally for

I have carried legally for over 38 years every day that I leave my property. I will not carry to any location where weapons are not allowed.

These comments about the wild west and carrying on the hip crap is beginning to tee me off.....Concealed means concealed.....Period.

CobaltGeorge
218114
Points
CobaltGeorge 12/07/11 - 11:08 am
0
0
Georgia "Constitutional

Georgia "Constitutional Carry" Act of 2012 prefiled in Georgia
Georgia Gun Owners calls on legislature to hold committee hearings

Kennesaw, GA – Today, the 6,000 members and supporters of Georgia Gun Owners announced that State Representative Jason Spencer (R-Woodbine) has pre-filed the Georgia "Constitutional Carry" Act of 2012 (HB 679).

The Georgia "Constitutional Carry" Act of 2012 will eliminate the requirement that individuals in Georgia have a Georgia Weapons Carry License in order to carry openly or concealed in the State of Georgia.

The Georgia "Constitutional Carry" Act of 2012 will:
Eliminate the mandatory intrusive government requirement for background checks of law-abiding Georgia gun owners;
Eliminate the mandatory requirement for taxes or “fees” be paid to county governments across the state, some of which add up to more than $100;
Eliminate mandatory government fingerprinting requirements;
Eliminate mandatory trips to county probate courts in order to carry openly or concealed;
Eliminate mandatory county government-imposed weapons license waiting periods;
Leave the current Georgia Weapons Carry License in place as a voluntary license, for the sake of reciprocity; the license will no longer be mandatory to carry open or concealed in Georgia.
"Law-abiding citizens should not have to be fingerprinted and cataloged like common criminals just to be able to defend themselves, their family and their property.

In this day and age, with our firearms rights under full-fledged attack from Washington, and even here in the State, it's time to finally remove the government-imposed barriers to private protection and self-defense," said State Rep. Jason Spencer.

In recent years, similar pieces of legislation have passed in Arizona and Wyoming, joining two other states, Alaska and Vermont, where gun owners are not required to carry around a government permit in order to defend themselves and their families.

"Constitutional Carry" decriminalizes the practice of carrying a handgun openly or concealed without a permit for those who are legally eligible to purchase and possess a handgun under state and federal law, and otherwise grants the same authority to carry as enjoyed by permit holders.

"It's time to remove the barriers to firearms carry in Georgia. It's time the legislature hold public and transparent hearings on the Georgia 'Constitutional Carry' Act of 2012. The members and supporters of Georgia Gun Owners are calling on members of the House Judiciary Non-Civil Committee and Speaker David Ralston to hold these hearings as soon as the legislature reconvenes in January.

The right to defend oneself in Georgia does not come from a piece of government paper. Our right to self defense is God-given, " said D.R. Leonard, Political Director.

For more information about the Georgia "Constitutional Carry" Act of 2012, please contact Ashley Rodriguez at ashley.r@georgiagunowners.com.

seenitB4
132298
Points
seenitB4 12/07/11 - 11:26 am
0
0
cgee sez.. In recent years,

cgee sez..
In recent years, similar pieces of legislation have passed in Arizona and Wyoming, joining two other states, Alaska and Vermont, where gun owners are not required to carry around a government permit in order to defend themselves and their families.

This is great Cg.....hope it passes for Ga.

CobaltGeorge
218114
Points
CobaltGeorge 12/07/11 - 11:34 am
0
0
B4, As a live time member of

B4, As a live time member of the NRA and many other gun organizations, I see this bill as a security measure protecting the 2nd, but I have some reserve feelings about it.

CobaltGeorge
218114
Points
CobaltGeorge 12/07/11 - 11:35 am
0
0
Chillen, what do you think

Chillen, what do you think about it?

Chillen
17
Points
Chillen 12/07/11 - 11:43 am
0
0
cobalt, I definitely have

cobalt, I definitely have concerns. I am for the smallest govt possible and the least amount of regulations possible, but to open up carry ability for anyone? I just don't know about this one.

Of course, on the flip side, the people we have to worry about shooting or robbing us carry right now and they don't have a permit. All this bill might to is allow more law abiding citizens to carry guns. However, would more people who don't know how to handle a weapon start carrying? Risking accidental shootings due to user error?

One more thing, what does that do to our reciprocating states like Florida, North Carolina (Stupid South Carolina, join the club darn it!)? If we no longer have an official permit, can we then carry our weapons to Florida with us on vacation or will we now need a Florida permit now?

harley_52
33652
Points
harley_52 12/07/11 - 11:59 am
0
0
An armed society is a polite

An armed society is a polite society.

TParty
6004
Points
TParty 12/07/11 - 12:02 pm
0
0
Today's republicans are seen

Today's republicans are seen as a joke, just look at Trump being a moderator for the debates... And like I said, it's getting so bad the CEO of Fox News is change course. Bachmman, Cain, Glenn Beck, Trump, Rush- they are not the same type of conservative as I am.

What does it take to get a CCW in Ga? Just have a valid ID while not being a criminal, and pay the fee. There is no training involved. Arizona (Where I got mine) there is a two day course, and hands on shooting test. It's not great, wish there was more- but it's something.

Point being- if you own a company, and you do not mind your employees carrying, that's up to you- it's your right.

What I am suggesting is that it is not financially sound to allow that kind of policy. This editorial said about this armed pizza guy, "the delivery man shot at [robber] and apparently missed."

Where did that bullet go? Let's say that bullet hit my house, the place where my son sleeps. First question would be, "Who shot my house?" Pizza kid would say "I shot it, but I was aiming for this bad guy." "Why are you carrying a weapon at work, does your company allow that?" "Yes they do, I have a dangerous job, and this gun probably saved my life tonight." "Well, that's fine pizza guy, but your gun put my family in danger when you fired it and missed and hit my house. Does your company provide defense training, gun safety, gives you time and training to stay proficient and accurate when firing your gun under duress?" I'm sure the pizza guy would say no.

Not long after, I would find an attorney, to seek damages for the repairs needed on my house, and find a way to prevent my house from being shot again.

If you're a small business, how much disposable income do you have to handle these things? You would say, "That's when liability insurance will kick in, and we'd be protected." Well, insurance is a business as well, and they also don't want to lose money. I'm sure they would have an insurance clause of weapons at work policy, where there will be stipulations to minimize the risk of the insurance company from paying out.

Think of it like... at a warehouse. If a guy crashes a forklift and injures himself, others or property- the first question will be "Was the person operating the forklift qualified?" and if he is not, the insurance company is not paying anything. Just like if you were driving drunk, and damaged your car. The same will apply to workers who fire their weapons at work.

Police do it, there's always an investigation into why an officer fired his weapon in the line of duty. And I don't know the intimacies of the police force, but I imagine he has to demonstrate his ability to fire to his weapon to stay current and qualified to perform his duty, because there could be repercussions.

There is a lot to this, so it's easier for a company to say "Leave you guns at home."

I'm speaking from a business, money side here.

CobaltGeorge
218114
Points
CobaltGeorge 12/07/11 - 12:04 pm
0
0
Very good Chillen, Very

Very good Chillen, Very good.

I just feel it opens the door to many unstable, untrained individuals that could not make that instance judgement befor pulling that trigger. No convicted felon should ever be allowed to pocess a weapon and that should be addressed in the bill. I just might have to vote against it unless I saw the fine prints in it clarifying many issues.

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