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Professor totally misses point of military involvement abroad

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OK, so let’s talk “shameful.”

Speaking of a campus effort to send care packages to our troops abroad, Michael Avery, a professor at Suffolk University Law School in Massachusetts, reportedly told colleagues in an e-mail that it was “shameful that it is perceived as legitimate to solicit in an academic institution for support for men and women who have gone overseas to kill other human beings.”

Wow. That’s about as sage as saying a hospital is a place where people run around with knives and cut other people open.

What’s really shameful is how someone so profoundly ignorant and moronic can be found teaching “in an academic institution.” Devoid of facts and experience and any real-world perspective, this man is a disgrace not only to his country for his knee-jerk anti-Americanism, but to his students, if his unscholarly views are shared with them as well.

Where to begin?

First, the Afghan war was foisted upon America by a murderously misogynistic, hostile and backward Taliban that also gave shelter to more cosmopolitan ne’er-do-wells that helped give rise to, and then shelter, many of those behind the unprovoked 9-11 attacks.

It’s amazing you’d have to remind any American of that, least of all anyone in supposed higher education.

But besides all that, to put forth that the volunteers in the U.S. military are nothing more than “men and women who kill other human beings” is to reveal the unsophisticated mind of a callow child.

American and other NATO forces have been instrumental in saving women and children from 7th-century oppression and abuse; have built or rebuilt roads, schools, businesses and other basic infrastructures of society; have helped shape, through training and example, the skeleton of an Afghan protective force that might, just might, preserve the gains for a more modern and peaceful society that we’ve made possible; and so much more.

Before spouting off about those murderous American forces, Mr. Avery might have visited the region and seen first-hand the professionalism, determination and sacrifice of our forces – and the appreciation of the Afghan people who see well enough what’s going on.

As a Stars and Stripes article Oct. 31 made clear, our presence in Afghanistan is giving younger Afghans the slimmest of hopes for a brighter future. We’ve even brought in reinforcements – such as experts from IBM who are operating a tech incubator in Afghanistan to help young entrepreneurs rise above the 330 B.C. walls around them. Now, instead of being whipped in public for wearing the wrong clothes, Afghan women are opening their own stores to sell them.

Rather than armed gangs of U.S. troops, young Afghans are worried about older Afghans, and their penchant for miring the country in incessant war.

And what might surprise the occasional left-wing college teacher back here is that young Afghans fear the absence of U.S. troops.

“We are ready for something different than violence,” one 30-year-old Afghan told Stars and Stripes.

“Our entire business depends on security,” Farid Ansari, 25, added – noting his fear of what may happen when U.S. troops leave.

It’s a good bet he’d put together care packages to keep them there.

Comments (23) Add comment
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Craig Spinks
817
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Craig Spinks 11/25/11 - 05:33 am
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Even the strongest nation in

Even the strongest nation in the written history of Man CANNOT be the guarantor of the peace and stability of foreign nations.

Why should we think we might?

Come to think of it, look's as if we've taken our eye off the domestic ball while we focused our eye for over ten years on a south Asian one.

Brad Owens
4583
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Brad Owens 11/25/11 - 06:33 am
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0
Tisk-tisk-tisk, We cannot

Tisk-tisk-tisk,

We cannot make Afghanistan into a little America or Europe.

If you all think a few USAID programs and training the Afghani police and military will make the centuries old ways of doing things there change in less that a decade, then it is YOU who needs to visit "the region and seen first-hand" that YOUR naive ideas about what our IMPACT will be are way off.

The Afghanis will always be Afghanis. I say let them live as they want, do what they want and decide their own future without us trying to turn them into something they are not, and will never be. Let them live in whatever century they choose.

At the end of the day what do we REALLY want to accomplish there anyway? A trans-fatty-acid burger joint on every corner? Never will happen, sorry.

The question becomes NOT what some obscure professor in Mass (who takes an ultra minority stand about CARE packages) says about our society, but what our foreign policy says about America to the world.

I support our troops (I am one) but this article is nothing but shallow, simple minded ignorance of the facts on the ground and the realities of guerilla warfare, insurgency and counter insurgency.

I suggest that Mr. Ryan and the rest of the ACES try reading some books on the subject (guerilla warfare) and then look at the facts and factors on the ground in Afghanistan and tell me if we are “winning” or if the insurgents are.

What they find may worry them more than what some pointy headed know-it-all in MASS says about anything.

Brad

Riverman1
84889
Points
Riverman1 11/25/11 - 07:18 am
0
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The editorial is about the

The editorial is about the professor who criticized efforts to send care packages to our troops. He said it was shameful to support those who kill others. That's the issue here, not the war.

You don't disrespect our own troops when you have differences with the foreign policy of our nation which teaches tolerance and equal rights. If Professor Avery was teaching in a classroom in an Islamic state and expressed disrespect for their military, we would be picking his severed head up by his hair and saying, "TOLD YOU SO."

Brad Owens
4583
Points
Brad Owens 11/25/11 - 07:54 am
0
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RM1, If you read, they say

RM1,

If you read, they say that he doesn't understand the work we are doing and even plays on the emotions of the "women's rights" issue to prove his stance is wrong on the war.

I agree with your statment that you don't disrespect the troops but I disagree that this editorial is not about the war.

It is time for us to look at out involvment there with open eyes and define what it is we are trying to accomplish at this point in Afghanistan. I hope the presidential electioons will bring on some honest debate about what will happen there and what our short term and long term goals are.

Brad

Riverman1
84889
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Riverman1 11/25/11 - 07:34 am
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Brad, for some reason you and

Brad, for some reason you and Dr. Spinks went off on the wrong course with the editorial. It's hard to justify the professor's actions or the Taliban regimes of the past in Afghanistan. Sure, we can debate whether we have the ability to stay and ensure a tolerant government, but not the nobility of our purpose or intent and sacrifice of our soldiers.

Brad Owens
4583
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Brad Owens 11/25/11 - 08:03 am
0
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RM1, No rational person will

RM1,

No rational person will say not to support our troops, but this is not written to question that. It is typical reichwing propaganda (same as the anti-war leftist propaganda) meant to harp on emotions rather than logic.

The idiot calling us "killers" is just that, an idiot and I doubt very many folks could agree with his position. But to take such an opinion and make it seem like it is a representative one of the anti-war crowd is just not the reality.

And then to use emtional instead of rational arguments that appeal to the American minddset about freedoms and norms in society to prove him wrong (which are little more than barley hidden excuses for why we need to stay in Afghanistan) is also wrong.

I mean do you think there will ever be a McDonalds on every corner in Kabul?

I do argee that the scarifice of our soldiers is exactly the point, mine is, exactly what are they dying for at this point?

Brad

Riverman1
84889
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Riverman1 11/25/11 - 08:19 am
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Brad, here's the thing. If

Brad, here's the thing. If you want to express your doubts about the war, don't pick a forum where the subject is a college professor disrespecting our military that you and I are both former members of. Try that in an Islamic state (or in Israel) and see what it gets you.

southernguy08
499
Points
southernguy08 11/25/11 - 08:33 am
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This big mouth,
Unpublished

This big mouth, unappreciative liberal, and those who think like him have an absolute right to express themselves. Its just a shame that they're usually not bright enough to realize that these veterans are the reason they can express themselves so freely. Freedom isn't free, our vets have and are STILL paying a heavy price for it. Hope you liberals get this message and stop whining for a minute and show a little appreciation. I doubt you will, but it would be a pleasant surprise.

bjphysics
36
Points
bjphysics 11/25/11 - 08:38 am
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Professor Avery is an

Professor Avery is an extremist idiot with a minority view; however, it is a mistake to conflate his scurrilous description of our troops with legitimate objections to the Afghan war – these are separate and independent.

Carleton Duvall
6305
Points
Carleton Duvall 11/25/11 - 08:51 am
0
0
Hey! BJ, I have never seen

Hey! BJ, I have never seen Albert look so good.

bjphysics
36
Points
bjphysics 11/25/11 - 09:27 am
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scoobydoisback: “Hey! BJ, I

scoobydoisback: “Hey! BJ, I have never seen Albert look so good.”

I was using barbells made of compressed photons, neutrinos, and tachyons. I incorrectly thought if I lifted these massless particles at near light speed, I would buff up. One of my students pointed out this was a waste of space-time and recommended I use barbells composed of massive compressed hadrons; as a result I have buffed up, relativistic to my previous massless state.

Jon Lester
2321
Points
Jon Lester 11/25/11 - 09:32 am
0
0
OK, so the guy's not making

OK, so the guy's not making friends or influencing people much, and he's clearly not appreciating how his free speech is said to be afforded, but we have to let him hold his views if being American is what it's supposed to be. It's not the fault of the average grunt that wedding parties are constantly attacked by drones, or that the government hasn't truthfully explained the reasons for any conflict since the Korean War.

rmwhitley
5547
Points
rmwhitley 11/25/11 - 09:33 am
0
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Did they say he "teaches"
Unpublished

Did they say he "teaches" law? Sounds about right for lefties.

Carleton Duvall
6305
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Carleton Duvall 11/25/11 - 09:37 am
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0
BJ___HUH!!

BJ___HUH!!

Brad Owens
4583
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Brad Owens 11/25/11 - 10:22 am
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RM1, With all due respect, I

RM1,

With all due respect, I think you need to read this agian. It doesn't just take the guy to task for his statements, it talks about all the "good" we are doing and how much the locals "fear" our troops leaving.

So tell me where the "stay" vs "pullout" argument belongs? If they brought it up, and they did, then why not talk about it?

Also, don't take my comments as anything other than direct questions about where we go from here on Afghanistan. That is what this article made me think about. Where doe we stand? Is this about nation building, defeating the AQ/Taliban or defending the U.S., is that one in the same?

If defending the war was not the point of this article, and it is only to defend our soldiers, then why bring up the fear folks have if they are pulled out? I just see this as another emotioanl argument using what is a very unpopular standpoint, calling our troops lkillers, to defend the position that has not been fully explained. That even makes me think about the Vietnam comparisons, calling our troops killers, betrayalof our allies there.

I thought Republicans were against nation building anyway.

Sargebaby
4693
Points
Sargebaby 11/25/11 - 10:28 am
0
0
"....it was “shameful that it

"....it was “shameful that it is perceived as legitimate to solicit in an academic institution for support for men and women who have gone overseas to kill other human beings.”

First, there is no such thing as a mission to "go overseas just to kill other human beings." If this is the professor's level of intelligence, no wonder our colleges and universities produce peacenik's! Sure, people are killed, but that's the nature of war. Our troops have/had the mission to rebuild what was destroyed, not kill the enemy. However, with terrorists trying to kill every "infidel," somebody's gonna get hurt!

drivenslow
0
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drivenslow 11/25/11 - 10:52 am
0
0
no the professor is right on
Unpublished

no the professor is right on in not one of these countries were they a direct threat to our way of life or liberty and i would guarantee the ratio of killing completely innocent people vs those that intend to cause us harm is 15 to one...for every one so called terrorist we have killed an entire family that were innocent at well over i million lives we have taken there is no way even half were militant.....so id agree........we never had any business in iraq....ALL WE HAVE HAVE DONE IS MAKE A NATION THAT HAD ZERO OPUIM PRODUCTION INTO THE LARGEST HEROIN SUPPLIER IN THE WORLD.....while out troops stand guard and protect these poppy fields.

drivenslow
0
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drivenslow 11/25/11 - 10:55 am
0
0
and Brad the afghanis had
Unpublished

and Brad the afghanis had zero production of poppy fields because the taliban punished you by death......now it rivals oil production in the amount of money it brings in...you people sem to never notice that when we stick our nosesd into these countries they are ten times worse off than if we would have left them alone especially just like in libya we fought along side the people that kill us in afghanistan...save the brainwashed military mentality of yours

avidreader
3259
Points
avidreader 11/25/11 - 11:03 am
0
0
As a teacher, there are many

As a teacher, there are many times when controversial subjects pop up in the classroom. I often have to bite my tongue and refrain from offending my students. Just because one choose's to teach, an open platform for spewing one's views is not always appropriate. Afterall, it is the the teacher's job to educate and connect, not drive students away with controversial topics that are better left for the bar stool, sharing openly with peers and others who are willing to listen and argue a point of view.

Professor Avery could have simply declined to donate a care package. I am 100% opposed to our country's military presence in Iraq and Afghanistan. My students are aware of my views, mostly through my silence and unwillingness to speak up and show encouragement for any form of pro-military discussion. I will take up this topic in the voting both, not with my students.

bjphysics
36
Points
bjphysics 11/25/11 - 11:10 am
0
0
If we stay in Afghanistan 3

If we stay in Afghanistan 3 more years, Kabul will fall like Saigon in 1975 when we leave; cost $0.5 trillion.

If we stay in Afghanistan 5 more years, Kabul will fall like Saigon in 1975 when we leave; cost $0.83 trillion.

If we stay in Afghanistan 7 more years, Kabul will fall like Saigon in 1975 when we leave; cost $1.2 trillion.

If we stay in Afghanistan 10 more years, Kabul will fall like Saigon in 1975 when we leave; cost $1.7 trillion.

If we stay in Afghanistan 20 more years, Kabul might not fall like Saigon in 1975 when we leave; cost $3.3 trillion.

If we stay in Afghanistan 30 more years, Kabul will not fall like Saigon in 1975 when we leave; cost $5 trillion.

How much treasure shall we spend?

allhans
23752
Points
allhans 11/25/11 - 11:29 am
0
0
I sometimes think there are

I sometimes think there are those in this country that are completely out of their element. Somewhere along the way their ancestors came to the U.S. and settled down - and it was the wrong place. Perhaps if these folks would trace back their family tree, go back to where it all started, as far as is possible anyhow, they could change all that, make a different country their destination and would be happier under a different rule.
They would be happier and more satisfied, and so would Americans.

JRC2024
9063
Points
JRC2024 11/25/11 - 12:02 pm
0
0
AMEN ALLHANS

AMEN ALLHANS

harley_52
23614
Points
harley_52 11/25/11 - 02:12 pm
0
0
Like most other things in

Like most other things in life, wars are better viewed in hindsight. I think it's particularly true with wars because the chain of events ending up with war's end are never predictable, nor are the unintended consequences achieved, or even what "winning" actually wins for you.

In hindsight (and I'm talking 20 years from now) I think we'll end up judging both Afghanistan and Iraq as abject failures. I have no doubt that in less than half that time, both will have fallen back under the control of radical islam and will be governed thru Sharia law. All of the money we spent, all of the lives that we lost, all of the blood we have spilled, and all of the families we have torn apart will have been wasted.

The Professor's angst and hatred are misplaced because they're directed at a group of people who honorably and bravely offered up their lives in support of their Country at a time of need. The real villain here is the Federal government who sent these men and women off to yet two more wars the Country wasn't willing to let them win.

Shameful.

socks99
250
Points
socks99 11/25/11 - 03:15 pm
0
0
ACES delivers another dose of

ACES delivers another dose of Benadryl to the crazy liberals! As they say at McD's, "I'm loving it!"

yakirz
9
Points
yakirz 11/25/11 - 03:40 pm
0
0
The people who claim to be
Unpublished

The people who claim to be the most "pro-America" are the first ones that try to limit speech that they don't agree with. Question religion, the military or any other institution the right favors, and you're told to keep your anti-American mouth shut, or "love it or leave it."

Quite the advertisement for "freedom!"

As for Afghanistan, the Afghans were taken over by the extreme Taliban, kind of what the right-wing christians want for America. The Taliban harbored bin Laden, not the Afghan people.

We'll never strike at the real enemy, we need them too much.

I agree with the quote "we sure showed those Afghans for what those Saudis did!"

eagle
94
Points
eagle 11/25/11 - 05:43 pm
0
0
As we deal with troops in the
Unpublished

As we deal with troops in the Mideast, what the hell are we doing in Africa? Obama has sent military advisors there and we hear very little about it....makes one wonder.

subdoc679
0
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subdoc679 11/27/11 - 08:45 am
0
0
Thanks Brad... Great points.

Thanks Brad... Great points. I spent 21 years in the military and have the same view. I think if a mandatory 2 year military service was required a lot of Americans would think differently.

bjphysics
36
Points
bjphysics 11/27/11 - 09:05 am
0
0
subdoc679: “I think if a

subdoc679: “I think if a mandatory 2 year military service was required…”

How would that work, i.e., who would be required to serve?

bjphysics
36
Points
bjphysics 11/27/11 - 09:48 am
0
0
Rate My Professors - Michael

Rate My Professors - Michael Avery

“A bit cocky, yes, but deservingly so. He has had his name on more US supreme court briefs in the last few years than most lawyers will have in a lifetime. Plus he is a co-author with Liacos of the Massachusetts evidence bible. His politics are somewhere to the left of Abbie Hoffman, which sometimes comes off as snyde. Better than a cuddly moron.”

http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=303481&all=true

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