Fighting for life and property

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Two of the most intriguing and profound public initiatives in years will appear on Mississippi voters’ ballots Tuesday.

Initiative 31 would protect property owners from having private developers use the government to take their land by force, through “eminent domain.” Proposition 26 would amend the state’s constitution to recognize that human life begins at conception.

These issues bear close watching; they regard two of our most fundamental human rights – that of life and property – and are not unique to Mississippi.

Remarkably, and regrettably, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 2005 (Kelo v. City of New London) that governments can, indeed, take your property (with compensation) against your will and transfer it to another private entity which thinks it can do more with that land than you have. Some 43 states now have laws forbidding, or sharply discouraging, such takings; Mississippi’s would do the latter, requiring a prohibitive 10-year waiting period on such transfers.

A sad footnote: They never did develop Suzette Kelo’s Connecticut land after seizing it.

It’s pertinent to note that they can’t even do that with your car. Imagine a fellow pining for your vehicle – and using the government to order you to hand it over for its Blue Book value. Shouldn’t our homesteads and land be more sacred than our autos? It is wholly unconscionable and un-American to think one party could use the government to seize another’s property. Pray voters stand in the way on Tuesday.

Meanwhile, Mississippi voters will cast ballots on the so-called “Personhood Amendment,” the most sweeping and democratic response to Roe v. Wade since the high court divined a right to abortion in 1973.

The amendment is breathtaking in its straightforwardness and clarity – as well as its logic: To this point, no one has documented any evidence that a fertilized human embryo has ever produced anything other than a human being. So the question is, are all humans created equal, and do they all enjoy the same rights enumerated in our Constitution? Or are our babies somehow less than human?

These are two of our most fundamental rights. Americans shouldn’t have to vote to get them back – but it’s beautiful that they’re finally getting that chance.

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Insider Information
4009
Points
Insider Information 11/07/11 - 12:03 am
0
0
No one shall be deprived of

No one shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law - 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

I don't see an asterisk that excludes anyone, including a baby.

Techfan
6461
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Techfan 11/07/11 - 05:25 am
0
0
I don't see an asterisk that

I don't see an asterisk that includes a zygote.

InChristLove
22481
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InChristLove 11/07/11 - 07:33 am
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Just remember Techfan, you

Just remember Techfan, you once were a zygote.

Techfan
6461
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Techfan 11/07/11 - 08:31 am
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And I was lucky enough to

And I was lucky enough to have parents who wanted kids.

Bizkit
32828
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Bizkit 11/07/11 - 08:44 am
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Biologically, a human zygote

Biologically, a human zygote is a human being. The 64 trillion combinations possible of the fusion of your parents gametes-and all the recombinations that occur during prophase I of meiosis creates a unique individual too. It is capricious to make a demarcation due to age-why not just folks over 70 aren't human beings either and lets make Soylent Green out of em. However, I still support abortion even though it puts a human to death. Biologically life begats live so a live egg and life sperm creates a live human being-homo sapiens! You can rationalize other wise but the science is at it is-just like there is no biological concept of race-we are but the human race.

bjphysics
36
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bjphysics 11/07/11 - 10:39 am
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How does this effect birth

How does this effect birth control pills, IUD’s, in vitro fertilization, and abortions to save a mother’s life?

InChristLove
22481
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InChristLove 11/07/11 - 09:48 am
0
0
Fail to understand what you

Fail to understand what you are asking bjphysics?

allhans
23992
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allhans 11/07/11 - 10:09 am
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How does the bill

How does the bill effect...?
I would think that birth control would not be an issue - if it is before conception-the life of the mother is a thing to be resolved by family and would be allowed.
It has happened that a mother that was terminal wanted her baby to be born with no regard to her own life. Most women can intelligently make that decision.

bjphysics
36
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bjphysics 11/07/11 - 10:46 am
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Isn’t in vitro fertilization

Isn’t in vitro fertilization conception in a petri dish? Don’t they usually fertilize multiple eggs? What happens to the remaining fertilized eggs if the mother has one successfully implanted but chooses not to have more implanted after that pregnancy?

bjphysics
36
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bjphysics 11/07/11 - 10:51 am
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>>>The measure would amend

>>>The measure would amend Article III of the Mississippi Constitution by adding a new Section 32 to read:

SECTION 33. Person defined. As used in this Article III of the state constitution, “The term ‘person’ or ‘persons’ shall include every human being from the moment of fertilization, cloning or the functional equivalent thereof.<<<

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Mississippi_Life_Begins_at_the_Moment_of_Fertilization_Amendment,_Initiative_26_(2011)

Chillen
17
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Chillen 11/07/11 - 10:53 am
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I totally understand the govt

I totally understand the govt needing your land for a road, bridge, dam, etc. But it is totally outrageous for them to take land from private homeowners & turn it over to private developers so that they can collect more tax money on it. That is totally outrageous.

Big Brother is watching you, manipulating you and stealing from you.....

Good for Mississippi. Stop the government.

Swampman
46
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Swampman 11/07/11 - 11:15 am
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If it passes, the logical

If it passes, the logical extension would be prohibition of "morning after" pills and IUD's. The extra fertilized ova from in-vitro fertilization will become legal footballs as the lawyers, politicians and activists bicker over the extent of their "personhood". As for the termination of pregnancies medically indicated as necessary for the mother's survival, those were done before Roe vs. Wade. However, abortion opponents are increasingly focused on legally dictating medical practices, albeit mostly unsuccessfully, so that could change.

Of course, the obvious intention of the Mississippi amendment is to allow for a state ban on elective abortions. Almost as obviously, the strategy is to create a state vs. federal conflict and a legal challenge to Roe vs. Wade that winds up in the Supreme Court - where the proponents hope that the current Court, which skews strongly to the right, will then overturn Roe vs. Wade.

Bizkit
32828
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Bizkit 11/07/11 - 11:20 am
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bjphysics brings up a good

bjphysics brings up a good point. Already the fertilized frozen blastocyts are considered legal humans because of all the lawsuits between divorced couples, etc. Also some states label a double homicide by killing a pregnant female. So already a conceptus does have some rights in some instances.

Swampman
46
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Swampman 11/07/11 - 11:22 am
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Remember, Chillen, the

Remember, Chillen, the government can also take your land - or, at least, condemn a right of way across it, which is much the same thing - for the benefit of private utility companies.

Aside from the harsh anti-government rhetoric, for once we agree, Chillen. The use of eminent domain to seize land and turn it over to private developers who promise the county higher tax revenues is a gross distortion of public interest exceptions.

And remember, "home rule" absolutists - it was (another) bad Supreme Court decision that has led to these state limitations on eminent domain, but it is mostly city and county governments who abuse it.

Swampman
46
Points
Swampman 11/07/11 - 11:23 am
0
0
Remember, Chillen, the

Remember, Chillen, the government can also take your land - or, at least, condemn a right of way across it, which is much the same thing - for the benefit of private utility companies.

Aside from the harsh anti-government rhetoric, for once we agree, Chillen. The use of eminent domain to seize land and turn it over to private developers who promise the county higher tax revenues is a gross distortion of public interest exceptions.

And remember, "home rule" absolutists - it was (another) bad Supreme Court decision that has led to these state limitations on eminent domain, but it is mostly city and county governments who abuse it.

harley_52
23959
Points
harley_52 11/07/11 - 11:30 am
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Human life begins at

Human life begins at conception. That is a medical fact. That some, for the sake of their own selfish motives, wish to refer to that life by another term to deceive and obfuscate doesn't change the fact.

Ronald Reagan said 'I've noticed that everybody who is FOR abortion has already been born."

Willow Bailey
20603
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Willow Bailey 11/07/11 - 11:33 am
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The more we diviate from

The more we diviate from God's plan and purpose for our lives, the more complicated our lives become. It's really a sad state, that as humans, we are now placing ourselves in the position that only God should occupy.

If only we could see ourselves as He sees us. Wonderfully and fearfully made by our creator, loved, valuable, completely accepted in the beloved, and set apart for greatness.

bjphysics
36
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bjphysics 11/07/11 - 12:07 pm
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Fascinating read: “Beginning

Fascinating read:

“Beginning of human personhood”

“One of the possible basic requirements for personhood is individuality, which entails differentiation between the person and its parents. Biology offers a number of stages in the life cycle that have been seen as candidates for personhood:

fertilization, the fusing of the gametes to form a zygote

implantation, the start of pregnancy, occurring about a week after
fertilization

segmentation, after twinning is no longer possible.

when the heart begins to beat

neuromaturation, when the central nervous system of fetus is neurobiologically ‘mature’

the time of fetal movement, or ‘quickening’

when the fetus is first capable of feeling pain

when it can be established that the fetus is capable of cognition, or neonatal perception

fetal viability

birth”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beginning_of_human_life

harley_52
23959
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harley_52 11/07/11 - 12:23 pm
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Well said, Willow Bailey.

Well said, Willow Bailey.

bjphysics
36
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bjphysics 11/07/11 - 12:31 pm
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Notice nobody posting any

Notice nobody posting any objections to the eminent domain initiative; the local developers and politicians awoke all the bears: conservative, independent, and liberal with that imbecilic action.

Brad Owens
4715
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Brad Owens 11/07/11 - 01:25 pm
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The “eminent domain” issue

The “eminent domain” issue has already been dealt with here in Georgia.

Here is a small piece of an article I wrote for City Stink that deals with that.

"After the US Supreme Court's notorious Kelo decision, the Georgia legislature created an act to limit the definition of the "public benefit" that justifies taking by eminent domain.

"The Act specifically defines "public use" as;
(1) literal possession by the general public or government entities;
(2) use for public utilities;
(3) use for roads and channels;
(4) acquisitions in instance of clouded title;
(5) friendly condemnations; and
(6) takings of "blighted" property.

The legislation specifically excludes economic development from the definition of public use. As has been the case in many states, the restrictions on public use have a loophole in the "blight" exception.

Blight is to be determined on a property-by-property basis. The only specific direction in the Act is that the subject property must be "urban" and must also meet certain conditions, such as abandonment, environmental contamination or illegal activity on the property."

----------

So as you can see, here in Georgia it has already been done. glad too, the giverment should not be able to take land unless it is the most urgent of needs for the PUBLIC good.

Brad

harley_52
23959
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harley_52 11/07/11 - 01:44 pm
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bjphysics said "Fascinating

bjphysics said "Fascinating read"

It would be fascinating to know how many people have spent how much time pouring over the words in that item to get them to sound just right, especially when you realize it's all been done for the sole purpose of muddying the issue and thereby hiding the truth.

bjphysics
36
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bjphysics 11/07/11 - 02:06 pm
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Did you read the article?

Did you read the article? Sound NPOV to me, if you check the terminology used with other sources you will see it is the standard accepted terminology.

The only way to please a conservative epistemological nihilist is with a conservapedia link; to that end:

“Creation science asserts that the biblical account, that dinosaurs were created on day 6 of creation approximately 6,000 years ago, along with other land animals, and therefore co-existed with humans, thus debunking the Theory of Evolution and the beliefs of evolutionary scientists about the age of the earth.

Creation science shows that dinosaurs lived in harmony with other animals, (probably including in the Garden of Eden) eating only plants; that pairs of each dinosaur kind were taken onto Noah's Ark during the Great Flood and were preserved from drowning; that many of the fossilized dinosaur bones originated during the mass killing of the Flood; and that possibly some descendants of those dinosaurs taken aboard the Ark are still around today.”

http://conservapedia.com/Dinosaurs

harley_52
23959
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harley_52 11/07/11 - 02:10 pm
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I've read hundreds of

I've read hundreds of articles like that. Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying that particular article is better, or worse, than others. My point is that the words (the ones you call "standard accepted terminology") have been and still are used to confuse the real issue which is "when does life begin?"

Look at the title to the article and read the very first sentence. The issue gets switched from "life" to "personhood." With that slight of hand, the whole discussion changes and they spend the rest of the article talking about the issue THEY have redefined.

It's "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," not "personhood, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

harley_52
23959
Points
harley_52 11/07/11 - 02:25 pm
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How did you do that,

How did you do that, bjphysics?

bjphysics
36
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bjphysics 11/07/11 - 02:30 pm
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harley_52: “It's ‘life,

harley_52: “It's ‘life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness,’ not ‘personhood, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.’”

And yet there is no Pro-Permanent-Vegetative-State legislation working its way through the legislatures; these “people” are alive also.

onlysane1left
216
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onlysane1left 11/07/11 - 02:32 pm
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The pro-lifers are always

The pro-lifers are always around in a discussion like this, but always seem to disappear when it comes to capital punishment. How can you be for pro-life in a state that is for capital punishment? Help me understand.......

onlysane1left
216
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onlysane1left 11/07/11 - 02:37 pm
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bjphysics: " And yet there is

bjphysics: " And yet there is no Pro-Permanent-Vegetative-State legislation working its way through the legislatures; these “people” are alive also."

I totally agree. Euthanasia for any reason, should be outlawed, too, if you are for this legislation. Pro-life.

harley_52
23959
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harley_52 11/07/11 - 02:41 pm
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bjphysics, what happened to

bjphysics, what happened to the post where you questioned whether I read your wikipedia article?

burninater
9680
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burninater 11/07/11 - 02:42 pm
0
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The extent to which those who

The extent to which those who claim the sanctity of human life are not pacifists reveals the hypocrisy, and dishonesty, of their position.

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