You call this 'moderate'?

  • Follow Editorials

As “Islamists” grow in power and influence in the Mideast, there’s debate over what the term even means.

At its most innocent, it appears to mean that Islam is not just a religion but a political system – meaning that the religion’s tenets become law.

At worst, Islamism will be a movement to set sharia law in cement and to drive out non-Muslims and, in the extreme, work to unite Muslims and create a worldwide caliphate.

In Egypt, Tunisia and Libya, former autocratic leaders are now gone, and news reports talk of “Islamists” surging to power. In Libya, one report said, “National Transitional Council leader Mustafa Abdul-Jalil said sharia law would be the main source of legislation, that laws contradicting its tenets would be nullified, and that polygamy would be legalized.”

Sharia law is characterized by abject intolerance for not following the strictest interpretations of Islam, and is extremely harsh on women and dismissive if not hostile toward non-Muslims.

Abdul-Jalil later tried to walk his statement back, saying “I would like to assure the international community that we as Libyans are moderate Muslims.”

Well, silly us!

The Jerusalem Post writes of Tunisia’s supposedly “moderate” Ennahda party:

“The party supported the 1979 embassy takeover in Iran, and evidence suggests it was responsible for bombing four tourist hotels in the 1980s. In 1991 its operatives attacked the headquarters of Ben Ali’s party, killing one person and throwing acid in the faces of several others, and that same year (party founder Rachid) Ghannouchi called for attacks on U.S. interests in the Middle East in response to America’s invasion of Iraq in the Gulf War.

“Ennahda’s founding ideology was largely shaped by that of Sayyid Qutb, a leading ideologue of the grandfather of all Islamist groups, Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood. Ennahda still maintains ties with the Brotherhood, but the Tunisian party prefers to compare itself with another political model: Turkey’s ruling AK party, which though religious in its founding and nature, has stopped short of calling for the imposition of Sharia”

A spokesman for the National Transitional Council pooh-poohed concern in the West over Abdul-Jalil’s authoritarian pronouncement, saying he “had an obligation at the dawn of a new era to assure Libyans that Islam would be respected.” That’s a crock. No one expected it not to be. And even if they up and adopted the U.S. Constitution, guess what: Islam would be respected.

The main difference would be, so would other religions. And women. And individual rights. Under sharia, fat chance.

We hope, for their own sakes, the Libyan people resist the apparently irresistible urge to tend toward the intolerance of sharia law. Where on Earth has the oppression of a people under strict religious law improved a nation’s economy or standing in the world? Does it advance the cause of peace with non-Muslims? How will Libyan women fare in a society in which they are treated like property and denied equal rights – and even, as Abdul-Jalil has promised, under polygamy? How can you have a system that is oppressive to its own people and hostile to outsiders and say it’s an improvement?

What’s the point of all that bloodshed and economic hardship and turmoil if they’re just going to trade one tyranny for another?

“Moderate” Islamists? What does that even mean?

Comments (39) Add comment
ADVISORY: Users are solely responsible for opinions they post here and for following agreed-upon rules of civility. Posts and comments do not reflect the views of this site. Posts and comments are automatically checked for inappropriate language, but readers might find some comments offensive or inaccurate. If you believe a comment violates our rules, click the "Flag as offensive" link below the comment.
Riverman1
93303
Points
Riverman1 10/31/11 - 10:31 pm
0
0
While I agree that Muslim

While I agree that Muslim fundamentalists gaining control in Libya, Egypt and other countries is dangerous, quoting an Israeli paper on the matter is not helpful.

I, also, disagree with your sarcasm asking what moderate Islam means. We know what it is and see it among millions of Muslims in Iraq, Jordan, Egypt and all over the world, including the U.S. Many of them have fought on our side.

Israel's government officially supports Jewish religious organizations and describes itself as a democratic, Jewish state. But another twist is since 1961 they have allowed Sharia Law for the country's Muslim residents. The Mideast is a complicated place.

Brad Owens
4906
Points
Brad Owens 11/01/11 - 04:17 am
0
0
Wow, this is one real work of

Wow, this is one real work of garbage.

I am here on the ground in Libya and I can tell you this editorial is way off base and the chance of Taliban style sharia law here is just none. In fact, if you all at the ACES would do a little research, you would find that here in Libya it is Sunni Muslims, not Shia that make up the vast majority (like 99%).

Libya is a Muslim country and the values and norms are based on their strong belief systems. The only laws that are being changed are the crazy ones Gahdaffi put in place that are contray to the basic Muslim beliefs systems.

A good example is having up to four wives where before Gahdaffi had limited them, despite culture and history being different, to only one. The reason Gahdaffi did that was as a means of control, no other reason. So what if they want to allow more than one wife, it is common practice in many places and nations around the world. In Swaziland for instance and South Africa, you can have as many wives as you want, President Zuma has four and the King of Swaziland has about 60, I digress.

How many times have you all blathered on about "Judeo-Christian" values and America is founded on "Christian values" or that America is a "Christian" nation? Too many times to name, yet you attack other countries for having the same faith based cultures and value sets?

If you all want some real facts from the ground here, drop me a line and I will provide you some facts, otherwise, shut up with the out of context remarks cut from Israeli 'newspapers' that are spun in a way to fit a narrow political view/agenda (oh yes, I see that you are trying to line this great victory for freedom in Libya up to be another 'failure' of President Obama due to the fake boogymen of "sharia law").

Libya is a great place and the people are some of the most nice I have ever met in all my travels. Are they conservative? Yes, very, but they do allow women to participate in all areas.

The world is a better place without Gahdaffi in it and this is a major victory for NATO and our President.

Be careful about all these seeds of hatred you are planting for Muslims, they might just sprout one day.

God bless a Free Libya, ALLAH-ho-akbar (God is Great)

Brad

Fundamental_Arminian
1871
Points
Fundamental_Arminian 11/01/11 - 04:02 am
0
0
"And even if they [Libyans]

"And even if they [Libyans] up and adopted the U.S. Constitution, guess what: Islam would be respected" (editorial).

I'm curious. Has our nation, in its meddling abroad, ever set up a constitutional republic anywhere? I never hear our current administration members say "constitutional republic," only "democracy." It seems that our federal government keeps growing and strengthening itself at the expense of individual and state rights. If our leaders dislike our constitutional republic, I guess they're being consistent in never setting up such a republic anywhere else.

As to moderate Islam abroad, what I've read about the persecution of Christians in the Middle East indicates that it has intensified wherever our nation has interfered. Christians are now suffering more in Iraq and Egypt, even to the point of having to flee. Apparently their persecution is intensifying in Libya. I shudder to think what they'll suffer in Syria and Iran if we ever meddle there.

Currently our administration wants a two-state solution for Israel. Can anyone guess what'll happen to Christians living in the land our administration wants Israel to hand over to the Palestinians?

Brad Owens
4906
Points
Brad Owens 11/01/11 - 04:20 am
0
0
Fundamental_Arminian, You

Fundamental_Arminian,

You said, "Apparently their persecution is intensifying in Libya..."

Please provide proof to back that up, that is absolutly false. 100% fabricated in every respect.

Brad

shrimp for breakfast
5629
Points
shrimp for breakfast 11/01/11 - 05:00 am
0
0
Hey Brad What in the heck are

Hey Brad What in the heck are you doing in Libya?
I've heard it's a very pretty place.
My country has made me scared of Middle Eastern Nations though. It's nice to hear that an American can go there and not get killed or arrested for spying.

Brad Owens
4906
Points
Brad Owens 11/01/11 - 05:26 am
0
0
Shrimp for Breakfast, I am

Shrimp for Breakfast,

I am here to help the new government with training, logistics and demining.

I must say that not only is Libya beautiful, the people are wonderful.

They have been brain washed to not like America for 40 years, but they know they have been lied to now, and they see that America helped free them from Gahdaffi, so they love us.

I have been here a couple of months now and I can say that the feeling of walking through the streets is one of welcome and ease. I get asked all the time, "Are you French?" and when I say American, they always smile and thank me. The one word I have heard more than any other is, "Welcome."

Do not fear a Free Libya, it is going to be a place I hope many Americans come and see for themselves. Also, do not take all this propaganda as the truth either, there has not been ONE incident where I have been made to feel anything but welcome and appreciated.

Tourism will be a great business here. In 2006-2007 over 40,000 people visited Libya, and it will only get better as time goes by.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leptis_Magna

The American far-right spin machine is desperate to not allow Obama to even get credit for the things he does get right, so that is why they must try to tarnish this great victory for freedom that we helped make happen in Libya.

Don't buy it!

A Free Libya is better than one oppressed, even if they chose to live by their Musilm values, which are not as bad as scare mongers would want you to believe anyway.

De Oppresso Liber

Brad

DuhJudge
206
Points
DuhJudge 11/01/11 - 06:11 am
0
0
Mercenary? Cool. Always

Mercenary? Cool. Always suspected so.

Riverman1
93303
Points
Riverman1 11/01/11 - 07:20 am
0
0
Let's hope Mike Ryan is wrong

Let's hope Mike Ryan is wrong with his simplistic view because we are turning out the lights in Dec. He needs to broaden his reading instead of relying on the Jerusalem Post.

There will only be about 100 troops left in Iraq. Afghanistan is about over too as we attempt to make peace with the Taliban. We should have carpet bombed Afghanistan after 9-11 and said we're even and left them to their craziness and poverty.

However, it's going to be Israel against all of them unless we create that huge 50,000 man base somewhere in the theater to react to emergencies that's been proposed. Know why we don't create that base in Israel? Because the moderate arabs would never allow a military based in Israel to act on their behalf.

As far as the two state solution, that appears to be the only way to go unless you really believe a minority Jewish population can control the majority arabs forever. But even with the two state solution, a state that is monitored by Israel and not allowed to have a military is not truly independent and the arabs will only stand so long for that.

Maybe Mike Ryan can take a trip to Libya and visit Brad. That would be some cool reading. Their philosophical confrontation as Mike opened his eyes wider as Brad showed him around.

bjphysics
36
Points
bjphysics 11/01/11 - 07:10 am
0
0
“Debunking the latest sharia

“Debunking the latest sharia scare”

[snip]

"On the surface that may sound odd. And, indeed, the typical right-wing reaction has gone something like this: 'A Florida judge ruled that a Muslim v. Muslim case can proceed under sharia law. I’m being unbelievably serious here! This kind of crap is why I drink, which would get me beheaded under sharia law.' Ironically, Nielsen is a registered Republican and Jeb Bush appointee.

And as it turns out, the case is entirely routine, according to Cyra Akila Choudhury, a professor at the College of Law at Florida International University who has been following the case closely. Nevertheless, the uproar over the case is “already bolstering the political prospects of an [anti-sharia] bill being considered by the Florida legislature,” Politico reported.

I spoke with Choudhury to find out more about the case and why it’s not at all cause for alarm. The following transcript of our conversation has been edited for length and clarity.”

http://www.salon.com/2011/04/02/sharia_florida_case/

copperhead
1035
Points
copperhead 11/01/11 - 07:14 am
0
0
bjphysics,should the U.S.

bjphysics,should the U.S. adopt all other countries' laws and let them trump our own laws?

copperhead
1035
Points
copperhead 11/01/11 - 07:21 am
0
0
bjphysics,are you in favor of

bjphysics,are you in favor of sharia law in the U.S.?

copperhead
1035
Points
copperhead 11/01/11 - 07:34 am
0
0
bjphysics,it appears you are

bjphysics,it appears you are in favor of sharia law in the U.S. Why?

Fundamental_Arminian
1871
Points
Fundamental_Arminian 11/01/11 - 07:36 am
0
0
Brad, you said it's false of

Brad, you said it's false of me to say persecution of Christians is increasing in Libya, and you challenged me to provide proof.

I wish I'd saved a couple of emails I received in the last day or so. They came from organizations such as The Voice of the Martys and the American Family Association. Because persecution under Gadhafi was severe, Libyan Christians were hopeful that the revolution would help them. That hope, however, is turning to disappointment as sharia (Islamic law) is being advocated and implemented.

Until I find a better link, here's one from Newsmax that mentions some of the persecution that has caused Christians to flee from Middle Eastern areas our nation has helped "liberate":

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/christians-egypy-iraq-islam/2011/10/24/...

By the way, how are you in such a position as to know exactly what's going on in all of Libya? How are you able to evaluate the politico-religious climate better than VOM and news services are?

Chillen
17
Points
Chillen 11/01/11 - 07:48 am
0
0
Those of us who watch & read

Those of us who watch & read the real news knew well over a year ago that sharia law was the intent of these muslim uprisings in the first place. The radical islamic muslim brotherhood is behind this.

Think things are bad now? Just wait until their mission is complete. They won't stop at the Middle Eastern borders folks. Does the slogan "Death to Infidels" ring a bell?

Now, lets connect the dots. Mainstream media reports that the muslim's rioting/fighting want freedom and liberty. Rioting/fighting works & leader is overthrown. Almost immediately radical sharia law is implemented.

In the United States. Mainstream media reports that occupy protesters are only mad at the banks and the bank bailouts. They want nothing more than control. Will the rioting work? Will the true goal of these protester organizers be implemented? Will our nation have to declare a state of emergency due to growing domestic violence in 2012? Will this give the "spread the wealth" crowd the push they need to complete their mission?

So many questions. Such a complacent, yet intentional mainstream media. So many Marxists. Whats a freedom loving American to do?

copperhead
1035
Points
copperhead 11/01/11 - 07:49 am
0
0
Brad may have access to

Brad may have access to taliban info,you reckon? This could be propaganda from the taliban? He couldn't be getting much done over there considering the time he spends on here. THIS could be his job. Brad,are you paid to comment on these threads?

CobaltGeorge
175191
Points
CobaltGeorge 11/01/11 - 07:51 am
0
0
chillen.."Whats a freedom

chillen.."Whats a freedom loving American to do?"

Be prepared!

Fundamental_Arminian
1871
Points
Fundamental_Arminian 11/01/11 - 07:53 am
0
0
"I am here [Libya] to help

"I am here [Libya] to help the new government with training, logistics and demining" (Brad O.).

Brad, could your job with Libya's new government be influencing your defense of what's going on? If you've taken time to worship with any of the Libyan Christians there, please share your experience with us. What have you seen and heard from Libya's believers?

Techfan
6462
Points
Techfan 11/01/11 - 07:54 am
0
0
I'd go easy on using newsmax

I'd go easy on using newsmax as a reliable source.

Fundamental_Arminian
1871
Points
Fundamental_Arminian 11/01/11 - 08:10 am
0
0
"I'd go easy on using newsmax

"I'd go easy on using newsmax as a reliable source" (Techfan).

To be sure, every news-gathering organization has its biases. But what in the article I linked makes you consider it untrustworthy?

Chillen
17
Points
Chillen 11/01/11 - 08:16 am
0
0
fundamental arminian asks

fundamental arminian asks "what in the article I linked makes you consider it untrustworthy?"

I doesn't toe the liberal party line that the mainstream media feeds them every single day. It is not part of the agenda.

I think that the actual truth with no spin actually makes some folks uncomfortable. It takes them outside their "normalcy bias" and they can't handle it.

(Amen to that CobaltGeorge!)

dichotomy
37376
Points
dichotomy 11/01/11 - 08:44 am
0
0
Brad....Stockholm Syndrome? I

Brad....Stockholm Syndrome? I hope you are correct but you must realize that many are just responding to the reports of about every major news organization concerning the possibility of sharia law in Libya. Just because Brad says it won't happen there (or here) doesn't eliminate the possibility. The Muslim Brotherhood there, and liberal judges here, keep the possibility alive. The final direction that Libya will take has not yet been set and, based on some recent court decisions here, apparently neither has ours.

Brad Owens
4906
Points
Brad Owens 11/01/11 - 08:49 am
0
0
Listen, the new government

Listen, the new government has not even been seated yet. There was a new PM announced yesterday.

The folks being quoted will not even be in charge in the next eight weeks.

So listen, all this panic is just that, PANIC. The Libyans will be what they are, but they are not Taliban and they are not Shia.

They are moderate Sunni and that is 100%, there is no Shia Libyan here. The only folks here that are Shia are from outside who came to help with the war. They maybe can stay, but they will never be citizens so they will never be able to vote, hold office or influence policy.

Trust me, Libyan people are not going to allow outside people to tell them how they must act. They are very proud people.

Also, the bigotry against Christians is no more taking place here than it does against Muslims in America. The Libyan people are very open to the idea of letting others worship, but all in good time. The time will come when it is OK, but right now there has to be order pushing what will be division should be frowned upon by everyone.

Christian pushing an agenda right now would only empower the Islamist point of view because in times of uncertainty people run to what they know.

Patience in what they need to exercise right now and allow things to settle down, then they can make inroads to be accepted on a larger scale.

Intolerance is everywhere in the world and knows no race, religion or political affiliation.

The fact remains that this article is putting out false and misleading information about the situation here in Libya.

Brad

P.S. Copperhead, we are in a lull right now while the new giverment is being put together, but I do appreciate the jab, all in good humor I hope?

Brad Owens
4906
Points
Brad Owens 11/01/11 - 09:09 am
0
0
dichotomy, Stockholm

dichotomy,

Stockholm Syndrome? Funny. No, I am just seeing it with my own two eyes and it is so much different than other places I have been that are Muslim countries.

The "Muslim Brotherhood" has zero influence here. That is all Western media non-sense.

The folks running things here are Western educated businessmen.

Just give it a chance please and don't fall for this scare tactics and anti-Muslim pro-Israel rhetoric.

Always consider the source, and I am here on the ground, ACES is not, and neither is the Jerusalem Times.

Libyans are the NICEST folks I have met on my travels and the one word I always hear in "Welcome."

Free Libya is a great thing we helped do, let's follow it up with an extended hand of friendship, not fear and loathing.

If I am wrong, you all get to rub my nose in it for years, but I am willing to bet you all that Mike Ryan will be proven wrong by the new found freedom that people have here in Libya. I will always bet on freedom.

Brad

P.S. RM1, I can get Mike Ryan or any member of his staff an invite to come and see for himself if he wants, I will show him all of Libya, and then he can write from his own eyes. I wish more than anything they would come and see. It is safe now, and we could get him in to see lots of folks for the "real deal"

Chillen
17
Points
Chillen 11/01/11 - 09:13 am
0
0
If the United States citizens

If the United States citizens can vote in someone like obama who openly campaigns on Socialist/Marxist principals and exhibits those tendencies in his lifestyle & actions, then its certainly plausible that Libyans will vote in a muslim "sharia law" extremist.

Politicians know that its easy to lead the sheeple with a flashy slogan & slick talker. You can bet that the sharia law crowd is well organized and well funded.

Fundamental_Arminian
1871
Points
Fundamental_Arminian 11/01/11 - 09:48 am
0
0
"Also, the bigotry against

"Also, the bigotry against Christians is no more taking place here [Libya] than it does against Muslims in America" (Brad O.).

Brad, I wish you hadn't written that. I was wanting to find some reason to share your optimism, but your statement is utterly absurd. Until shown otherwise, I'll continue to believe the reports relayed through the Voice of the Martyrs and other organizations that actually know the Christians trying to survive in the Middle East.

Fundamental_Arminian
1871
Points
Fundamental_Arminian 11/01/11 - 09:56 am
0
0
"RM1, I can get Mike Ryan or

"RM1, I can get Mike Ryan or any member of his staff an invite to come and see for himself if he wants, I will show him all of Libya, and then he can write from his own eyes. I wish more than anything they would come and see. It is safe now, and we could get him in to see lots of folks for the 'real deal'" (Brad O.).

Do you really expect to find the truth from a government-guided tour of Libya? Would such a tour have been trustworthy in the U.S.S.R.? I think contacts with Christians who must meet and worship underground would provide more reliable information--and that's what VOM offers.

shrimp for breakfast
5629
Points
shrimp for breakfast 11/01/11 - 10:33 am
0
0
Well Brad one day I would

Well Brad one day I would love to see not only Libya but many other countries in that area. I'm not going to hold my breath because I've wanted to see Cuba since I was a little kid. (50 years ago)
I want to sit on a beach in Cuba and fire up a good old Cuban Cigar! I've never had one.
Good luck in your work and tell a Lybian for me that a US citizen named John says hello and I'm glad they have their freedom!
John

Brad Owens
4906
Points
Brad Owens 11/01/11 - 10:53 am
0
0
FA, Well, I am not the

FA,

Well, I am not the governemnet here, and for the record, there is no goverment here now. Also, there is no "guides" required by the Freedom Fighters, people are free to go anywhere and so are reporters.

You are thinking about Gahdaffi, he is dead and so is his crazy oppression of the Libyan people and rules like that.

Come one over and see for yourself.

I encourage everyone to relax and just let the Libyan people find the right mix for their governemnt and new constitution. I am sure that they will work hard to get it right for their country.

If you all could have been on Hero's Square (formerly Green Square) the day after Gahdaffi was killed and they knew the nightmare was really over, it was amazing. Like when the Berlin Wall came down except without the beer. I wish you all could have felt the energy and collective relief the people have now that he is gone and they are free.

Once people taste true freedom, they cannot go back.

The people here are so different than Egypt and Central Asia, they will be just fine and no threat to us will comeout of of a Free Libya.

Again, if Mike Ryan wants to come out, he can see it for himself. Talking to ordinary Libyans and meeting the Rebels will change your mind about them and their motivations.

God Bless Freedom and Self Determination,

Brad

Brad Owens
4906
Points
Brad Owens 11/01/11 - 11:00 am
0
0
Shrimp4Bfst, You bet I will,

Shrimp4Bfst,

You bet I will, it is great to see all this with my own eyes and really understand what is happeneing here.

Don't believe what you see on the news, it is mostly hype and wrong information.

Brad

TParty
6004
Points
TParty 11/01/11 - 11:08 am
0
0
Slow clap to Brad, while

Slow clap to Brad, while standing. Thank you.

Back to Top

Search Augusta jobs