Your liberty in their hands

In Obamacare case, Supreme Court to rule on limits of government's power

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Liberty is neither a conservative nor a liberal value. It's a human right.

We hope the U.S. Supreme Court - particularly the more liberal members of the court - keep that in mind when they rule on the constitutionality of the federal Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act of 2010, known colloquially as Obamacare.

And we pray the high court gets to it before the presidential election in November 2012, as the American people have a right to know beforehand whether this president's signature piece of legislation will survive. Not to mention the fact that this onerous piece of ill-considered legislation starts squeezing us for real after 2012.

The most egregious part of the law, of course, is the provision requiring all Americans to buy health insurance that suits the federal government. Never before has a Congress had the gall to attempt to force Americans to purchase a product without regard to their desires. There is no comparison to car insurance, for instance, because that involves an activity - driving - which is both voluntary and a privilege that the government can take away, rather than a birthright.

The federal 11th Circuit Court of Appeals recently ruled that the so-called individual mandate is unconstitutional. But the ruling is as notable for its language as its conclusion: It is, frankly, some of the most ominous verbiage we've ever seen in a court document: The two appeals court judges who prevailed in the 11th Circuit Court's three-judge panel - one of the two being a Clinton appointee - ominously said the individual mandate "represents a wholly novel and potentially unbounded assertion of congressional authority: the ability to compel Americans to purchase an expensive health insurance product they have elected not to
buy, and to make them repurchase that insurance product every month for their entire lives."

Consider just the words "potentially unbounded assertion of congressional authority." In plain language, that implies that if this law stands, the power that Congress holds over our lives is potentially limitless.

If that doesn't frighten you, either you're not getting enough caffeine or you're getting too much Marx.

Court rulings on Obamacare have been all over the map thus far. It soon will be time for the U.S. Supreme Court to weigh in - and determine whether there are, indeed, any limits to this government's power.

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carcraft
24331
Points
carcraft 08/19/11 - 01:59 am
0
0
The other problem right now

The other problem right now is that cash straped states and the broke federal government are wasting billions upon billions of dollars implimenting a law that most likely won't survive the Supreme Court!

HTN007
19
Points
HTN007 08/19/11 - 05:13 am
0
0
"potentially unbounded

"potentially unbounded assertion of congressional authority." In plain language, that implies that if this law stands, the power that Congress holds over our lives is potentially limitless......put in more specific terms, if congress can mandate that you purchase medical insurance can they not also start mandating the terms of your receiving coverage by that insurance? That is, if you choose not to have a procedure that is cost effective for treating your illness-reduces Medicare expenditures- and recommended by guidelines, can your coverage for treatment of that condition be denied under terms of future legislation? Where does the authority of the Commerce Clause end?

copperhead
1035
Points
copperhead 08/19/11 - 05:18 am
0
0
If we hold hands and sing a

If we hold hands and sing a few verses of mmm mmm obama things will be just fine.

southernguy08
499
Points
southernguy08 08/19/11 - 06:22 am
0
0
We act so surprised that our
Unpublished

We act so surprised that our "gummint" would require us to purchase health insurance. Why? For decades, they've been demanding that independent businesses pay a certain amount and no less to their employees. Mandatory maternity leave, paid vacation, and smoking breaks next? Ya gets what you vote in, folks.

Rhetor
978
Points
Rhetor 08/19/11 - 07:04 am
0
0
Ah, yes, an editorial

Ah, yes, an editorial standing up for our right to be poor and sick. An interesting place for conservatives to make a stand. Apparently, to conservatives, warrantless wiretapping (Patriot Act) isn't an assault on our liberty, and neither is No Child Left Behind a government intrusion into local schools, but being able to go to the hospital when you need to is offensive. Well, in any case, let's see (in the course of their own good time) what the Supreme Court has to say. Do have a great day, my good friends, regardless of whatever your political views happen to be.

southernguy08
499
Points
southernguy08 08/19/11 - 07:20 am
0
0
RHETOR, let me ask you this
Unpublished

RHETOR, let me ask you this regarding "gummint" healthcare. Do you really have faith this idiot president and idiot congress can run our healthcare, when they can't even balance a checkbook? If you do, I've got some oceanfront property in North Dakota I'll sell ya...CHEAP!

Riverman1
79616
Points
Riverman1 08/19/11 - 07:59 am
0
0
Obama plainly said this is

Obama plainly said this is only a start. His goal is one health care system, government funded, for everyone. How do you imagine it will be paid for? Realistically, do you think the 50% who pay taxes will be asked to fund it for the other half? Do you think they will be asked to dilute their own medical care to take care of the nonpayers?

Ah, heck it's only government money, we have plenty. Give everyone free medical care, education, food and a house. We have arrived in Utopia.

harley_52
22211
Points
harley_52 08/19/11 - 09:01 am
0
0
Riverman said "Give everyone

Riverman said "Give everyone free medical care, education, food and a house. We have arrived in Utopia."

Now you're talkin'. Fundamental change is upon us. That's clearly the plan. Free house, free car, free food, free medical care, free education, free child care, free roads, free bridges, free parks, a good job, lots of time off, a clean environment, protection from "the rich" and from evil, greedy corporations, and a life of peaceful, coexistence with all other countries, racial, ethnic, and religious groups until the end of time.

Yep, sign right up here, folks. The government will make it all come true. But you gotta hurry, time is running out.

seenitB4
81700
Points
seenitB4 08/19/11 - 09:11 am
0
0
Can we all live in the Cayman

Can we all live in the Cayman Islands though....won't it be rather crowded?

harley_52
22211
Points
harley_52 08/19/11 - 09:17 am
0
0
Retired Army said: "I have to

Retired Army said: "I have to agree with most of the righties on this one though. The current law is baloney. I am for a single payer national health care system. You can scream socialism and I will answer moral imperative. I, and countless others, firmly believe that God is on our side on this one."

The current law is indeed "baloney" and it will probably be struck down by the Supreme Court. We'll see.

A few questions....

Would you please name the "single payer" you have in mind?

This "moral imperative" you say isn't "socialism" can you explain it? What is the moral imperative? How is it funded?

Do you really think God is on the side of those who deny his place in the foundation of this Country and who and don't want his name mentioned, or his existence recognized, at any public place?

harley_52
22211
Points
harley_52 08/19/11 - 09:20 am
0
0
seenitB4 said: "Can we all

seenitB4 said: "Can we all live in the Cayman Islands though....won't it be rather crowded?"

Sorry, seenitB4, the Cayman Islands will not be a possibility for you. You're going to have to live in North Dakota. Not to worry, though, you'll enjoy it for sure.

seenitB4
81700
Points
seenitB4 08/19/11 - 09:45 am
0
0
Sorry harley......You will

Sorry harley......You will have a hard time putting my fanny in North Dakota....gotta stay in the SOUTH....pickup trucks-rednecks-black strap molasses kind of woman......heee-haw!

harley_52
22211
Points
harley_52 08/19/11 - 09:57 am
0
0
Well, seenitB4, if you're

Well, seenitB4, if you're going to participate in the new Obama society where we give you everything for free, you'll have to live where we tell you, drive what we tell you, work in the career field we pick for you, accept wages we've set for you, willingly accept our decisions on your food, your health care, and the rest of your day to day decisions? Oh, BTW, we'll have a crew over to pick up that pick-up truck you've been driving. They're not allowed.

Getting cold feet?

dichotomy
30721
Points
dichotomy 08/19/11 - 10:43 am
0
0
"Ah, yes, an editorial

"Ah, yes, an editorial standing up for our right to be poor and sick."

No, standing up for the right not to be forced to buy anything just because you are born. The problem is that the entire law is based on this mandate and the mandate is more than likely unconstitutional. Obamacare is a stupid, ill conceived law that was dreamt up in the middle of the night, with provisions that were not calculated and not thought out, and priced by the CBOE based on bad information and outright lies provided by Nancy Pelosi and the Harry Reid. It's a bogus house of cards built on this one provision which will probably be struck down by the SCOTUS. It's the kind of thing you get when things get rammed through by people with no common sense in the middle of the night like sneak theives. In other words, Democrats.

seenitB4
81700
Points
seenitB4 08/19/11 - 11:00 am
0
0
harley....don't know where ya

harley....don't know where ya coming from but I have never cared for freebies ...you must have me mixed up with others......
Paid for everything I have----never had welfare.....don't like free anything given to healthy folks.....

seenitB4
81700
Points
seenitB4 08/19/11 - 11:02 am
0
0
Living in the Caymans meant

Living in the Caymans meant getting away from crazy gov. decisions.

harley_52
22211
Points
harley_52 08/19/11 - 11:18 am
0
0
Sorry, seenitB4, I've been

Sorry, seenitB4, I've been able to see from your posts where you stand on issues and I know you're not a supporter of freebies and welfare for healthy folks.

I was just playing a little game to demonstrate the folly of socialism/communism and I thought you were playing it too. I see now you weren't.

My apologies.

seenitB4
81700
Points
seenitB4 08/19/11 - 11:26 am
0
0
I could probably play the

I could probably play the game with you if I could muster up a good mood...but beeeg car trouble & a fussy husband just licked the sweet off my lolipop this am.....MEN....too bad we need you so much!LOL

harley_52
22211
Points
harley_52 08/19/11 - 12:09 pm
0
0
I know exactly what you mean,

I know exactly what you mean, seenitB4.

carcraft
24331
Points
carcraft 08/19/11 - 01:15 pm
0
0
Retired Army, Driving a car

Retired Army, Driving a car is a privilege granted by each state. As a privilege granted by the state the activity allowed by the privilege can be regulated by each state. There is no "national " drivers license, there is no right to drive a car and many people live perfectly happy lives not owning or driving a car. So please tell me how car ownership is any where similar to citizenship?

faithson
4822
Points
faithson 08/19/11 - 03:28 pm
0
0
By Federal law, ALL hospitals

By Federal law, ALL hospitals MUST attend to a citizen's (or non-citizen) health problems, weather they have insurance or not. So by law ALL must be treated, expense not being a reason for rejection. Logic suggests that those who are without insurance are exactly the ones this new health care law effects. I have insurance, this law will do nothing TO ME! Now my son does not have insurance. This law will make it mandatory that he either gets insurance or he will pay a penalty at tax time (approx $1500). Sounds pretty RATIONAL to demand that 'users' pay their fair share into the health care system WE ALL use. Even if that 'fair share' must be demanded by LAW. Those that always complain about the poor not paying taxes should be the first one's to support this plan to increase revenues to the health care system. Must be some other 'agenda' at work instead.

drivenslow
0
Points
drivenslow 08/19/11 - 03:29 pm
0
0
yeah lets get that socialized
Unpublished

yeah lets get that socialized medical care...you can wait six months to a year to find out if you are dying from cancer right......

augusta citizen
8697
Points
augusta citizen 08/19/11 - 08:46 pm
0
0
"Man is not free unless

"Man is not free unless government is limited." Ronald Reagan

Unfortunate but our current administration has a full agenda to limit citizen's rights and liberties, certainly not the government.

harley_52
22211
Points
harley_52 08/19/11 - 04:18 pm
0
0
faithson says "By Federal

faithson says "By Federal law, ALL hospitals MUST attend to a citizen's (or non-citizen) health problems, weather they have insurance or not. So by law ALL must be treated, expense not being a reason for rejection."

As is usually the case, what you say isn't quite correct. The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA) deals with EMERGENCY care only. Hospitals are required to provide emergency care to everybody. Not all care, just emergency care.

One of the worst pieces of legislation ever written, this law mandates hospitals eat the cost of such treatment. That means they either inflate the costs of treatment for people with insurance in order to recoup the losses on the freeloaders, or they go out of business.

Many have gone out of business which diminishes the medical care to everybody. The others have been able to recoup costs, but those costs end up as charges to other patients, so the healthcare costs to those who have insurance skyrockets to pay for the freeloaders. As a result of the higher charges, premiums, co-pays and deductibles rise which also hurts people who actually have insurance as well.

The really sad part is that hospitals and doctors live in such fear of litigation that people are allowed to claim virtually anything is a medical emergency and receive "free" treatment at many hospitals. This exacerbates the problems for hospitals and for people with insurance who, as usual, get um....er...ah....ripped by the freeloaders once again.

Willow Bailey
20580
Points
Willow Bailey 08/19/11 - 06:48 pm
0
0
Our health insurance premiums

Our health insurance premiums are unbelievable. We are seriously considering major medical policies only, now. Anyone tried it?

And you can't convince me that government involvement could do anything but make matters worse. Many people are excited that in the Obamacare, one cannot be denied coverage for previous existing condition. What they don’t realize, is that the cost will be rated up out the wazoo for the coverage.

And no one read the full policy before voting it in and even if they did, they wouldn’t know what it said; complete insanity. Everything our government puts its hand to is completely out of reality.

If rates continue to rise, the working people may all be without insurance very soon.

Vito45
-2
Points
Vito45 08/19/11 - 11:41 pm
0
0
Willow, a couple of things

Willow, a couple of things that would help everyone is : 1. Carry higher deductibles, and 2. Have mandatory co-pays for emergency services, including those on "free" health care. Emergency services are horrendously expensive as opposed to clinic/office care, and people runnung to the doctor for every sniffle as some do drives up insurance costs for all. If they had to reach a little deeper in their own pockets they would tough out more of the rountine complaints like most of us baby boomers and our parents did when we came along.

Willow Bailey
20580
Points
Willow Bailey 08/20/11 - 11:28 am
0
0
Vito45, I would have a 5-10k

Vito45, I would have a 5-10k deductible if I had a choice. As it is, I'm stuck on a group plan and have to do as required. My ER is $100 and everything else is covered. I don't use ER unless it is an emergency, but by not having to meet the deductible through ER, the plan encourages it's use. It makes no sense.

One thing I have learned from others who are not insured, is that the hospitals will negotiate the costs down for payment.So it always pays to ask.

Vito45
-2
Points
Vito45 08/20/11 - 01:36 pm
0
0
Willow, I was speaking more

Willow, I was speaking more in general terms of what we as a society can do to drive downs costs some. Like you, I am in a group plan that "is what it is" with regard to deductibles. However, if those group plans had options for higher deductibles for lower premiums, a LOT of people would take advantage of it; because they know they won't be running to the doctor for the sniffles or a sore toe. Insurance by definition is designed to protect one from catastrophic expense. It is silly to carry car insurance with no deductible just so you can get every door ding repaired; and it is equally silly to have medical insurance that picks up every dime of incidental needs.

Willow Bailey
20580
Points
Willow Bailey 08/20/11 - 05:43 pm
0
0
Exactly, Vito45, I can pay

Exactly, Vito45, I can pay for a lot of doctor visits for the amount I have to spend every month on the premium. What keeps us hooked, is the fear of potential hospital care or high dollar treatments which can totally wipe you out.

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