Respect runs both ways

President lands utterly on the wrong side of the Ground Zero mosque issue

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First things first: The debate over the Ground Zero mosque isn't about religious freedom. Muslims have more religious freedom in America than anywhere else in the world.

So when President Obama claims this is about America's tradition of religious freedom, and that this tradition requires a mosque be built in the former shadow of the Twin Towers in New York, he's being highly disingenuous. Again. His modus operandi is to draw unflattering, unrepresentative caricatures of an opponent's argument in order to poke holes in a parody of his own making.

Rather, this is about religious tolerance -- and this particular imam's opportunity to show it toward other Americans, instead of the other way around for a change.

This editorial page had pined for the president to weigh in on the insult about to be perpetrated with the building of the mosque so close to where radical Muslims, in the name of Islam, killed some 3,000 innocent civilians in an act of total war.

How utterly disappointing that when he did finally speak up, he took the side of the Muslims -- pitting him yet again against the wishes of a majority of Americans, as he has been on health care and illegal immigration.

Mr. Obama's premeditated decision to stand against America on this issue is not only an outrage, but is also a clear definition between power and influence: No one is asking him to use his presidential power to stop the mosque, only his considerable influence -- such as he tried so hard to wield in order to lure the Olympic games to Chicago.

Make no mistake about it: The building of this mosque would be no less of an act of religious intolerance than the burning of a church.

Should we also tolerate the erection of a statue to Timothy McVeigh across from the Oklahoma City bombing site, or a life-size Heisman trophy at the site of the O.J. Simpson murders?

Never mind that much of the Muslim world will see the mosque as a monument to their dubious heroes of 9-11; it's enough that Americans are outraged by the idea. Or at least it should be.

A CNN/Opinion Research poll found that 70 percent of Americans oppose the mosque near Ground Zero; 64 percent say so in a Fox News Poll.

But hey, at least Mr. Obama has Islamic terrorist organization Hamas on his side.

The imam behind this -- who many believe is radical himself -- claims this will be a shrine to religious tolerance and understanding. How's that working out?

If you were genuinely interested in extending a hand to someone, but they were insulted by the way in which you did it, wouldn't you try a different tack?

Americans are forever being lectured about being respectful of other cultures. When are other cultures going to reciprocate? Is it so difficult for our Muslim friends to understand that Ground Zero has become sacred ground to us -- much like Mecca, where non-Muslims aren't even allowed to set foot?

Why can't they be tolerant toward us for once?

And why couldn't a U.S. president stand with us on this?

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OJP
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OJP 08/16/10 - 10:20 pm
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Once again, conservatives ask

Once again, conservatives ask us to set our standards by our enemies.

This is America. For those who respect our Constitution, this should be - and is - a non-issue.

baronvonreich
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baronvonreich 08/16/10 - 10:36 pm
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"Muslims have more religious

"Muslims have more religious freedom in America than anywhere else in the world." - No. Muslims just have the same religious freedoms as EVERYBODY else in America.

This editorial is just ridiculous and hypocritical. By the ACES logic then no church should be standing anywhere that innocent people have been harmed by militant Christians and by that standard there sure wouldn't be many churches around here. Comparing religious freedom of millions to Timothy McVeigh or O.J. Simpson is utterly absurd. If all of Islam is to be judged by the militant acts of a few then is Christianity to be condemned by the acts of David Koresh, Jim Jones, Timoth McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, George Bush, or Richard Nixon? Is Judaism to be judged by Barney Frank? Are all priests child molesters? Are all members of Warren Baptist Church fraudsters and thieves?

And for one last time.....America is a republic where the majority does not set laws nor deny minorities their Constitutional rights. It doesn't matter if 99.9% of Americans oppose a mosque at Ground Zero. Get that through your thick, uneducated, freedom and liberty hating skulls.

TheFederalist
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TheFederalist 08/16/10 - 10:50 pm
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Pay no attention to the words

Pay no attention to the words of the deluded posters above who absolutely refuse to separate the constitutional right to build the mosque, which no conservative opposes, with the appropriateness and insensitivity of building it near ground zero. It is simply about the wisdom of building it where the crys of, "Allah Akbar", will be heard once again, near where they died, by those that lost their loved ones on 9/11. The very crys that their dear departed loved ones heard, most likely the last words they ever heard, as the Muslim terrorists crashed the planes into the World Trade Center. Yes, this is America, and we Americans are tired of always being the ones that must be tolerant. How about this Imam showing tolerance and understanding for once, if this is really all about building bridges between faiths? Not likely, because this is not about that at all, and those that believe otherwise are either fooling themselves, or they are so far left, that they can no longer distinguish between friend and foe.

Brad Owens
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Brad Owens 08/16/10 - 11:05 pm
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The President did not "take

The President did not "take the side of the Muslims" he took the side of the 1st Ammendment, so in other words, he took the side of freedom for us all.

The President is 100% correct here.

Speaking out against the poor taste of certain Muslim groups who want this so close to ground zero is one thing, to demand they not be allowed is another.

Now, the Mcveigh and OJ analogies are stupid (this would be more like Japanese Americans wanting to build a cultural center at Pearl Harbor in 1950). This is not a monument to the 9-11 attackers and to try to act like it is is just dishonest.

I am no fan of Obama, but he is 100% correct here and this editorial is just short sighted and not very well thought out.

It IS about religious freedom in America. The Muslim religion did not attack us, terrorist did.

Brad

OJP
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OJP 08/16/10 - 11:07 pm
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Ah, yes, Federalist: you

Ah, yes, Federalist: you recognize religious liberty in theory, not practice.

What you fail to realize is that whether you or anyone thinks this is apropriate is as relevant as whether you think the books I read are appropriate.

Brad Owens
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Brad Owens 08/16/10 - 11:19 pm
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Fed, So you support taking

Fed,

So you support taking away someone's rights because of "appropriateness and insensitivity?"

Since both of those terms are SUBJECTIVE they are points of view.

I don't want my own rights to be suppressed due to an opinion of someone else.

The Consitution is very clear about religious freedom and poor taste is not a reason to give up our values.

Brad

baronvonreich
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baronvonreich 08/16/10 - 11:31 pm
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TheFederalist Monday, Aug. 16

TheFederalist Monday, Aug. 16 10:50 PM Pay no attention to the words of the deluded posters above who absolutely refuse to separate the constitutional right to build the mosque, which no conservative opposes, with the appropriateness and insensitivity of building it near ground zero.
----------------------------
Sorry Fed but if insensitivity and lack of appropriateness laws were invoked then nobody would be able to do anything. There would be no KKK rallies, no New Black Panther Marches, no Tea Party rallies, no Gay Pride parades, no Christmas parades, and no freedom of speech. I really, really, really don't think anybody wants to stereotype all of Isllam based the actions of a few militants.....especially Christians.

"Yes, this is America, and we Americans are tired of always being the ones that must be tolerant." - And please refrain from attempting to speak for all Americans. The only people tired of being tolerant are those who are intolerant. Islam isn't at war with America. Islam is only at war inside the itty bitty brains of those people who don't respect nor understand Islam due to their preconceived notions, biases, and pre-determined thoughts and contradiction about their own personal religion.

sjgraci
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sjgraci 08/16/10 - 11:32 pm
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chronicle your editorials

chronicle your editorials have been wrong many times. Never has one been wrong more so on the side of history than this one. Nor has one been more ignorant of the fundamental principles of the US Constitution and the ideals America was founded on. You are nothing but fear mongering, demagoguing, lying and bigoted Anti-Americans. History will judge you with scorn and shame.

TheFederalist
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TheFederalist 08/16/10 - 11:41 pm
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No Brad, and I am not even

No Brad, and I am not even going to lower myself to try and refute your churlish statement. However, you then would deny my right to try and persuade the Imam that perhaps the best thing, due the the obvious sensitivity of this location, would be to show us all how understanding he can be and move it? What ever happened to free speech! Is that not a constitutional right too? What is wrong with you people, that you simply cannot see that despite the legal right, that the wounds of 9/11 are still too raw? Since it looks like over 60% of the American people can understand, and believe it is the wrong thing for this Imam to do, it is amazing that you can't, and please spare me any more gnashing of teeth about rights. Nobody is denying them their rights. They can build it. It is their choice. Go ahead and build it, but know beforehand that the building of this mosque at ground zero will do nothing but pour salt in the still raw wounds of those that lost loved ones, and will just further divide the Muslim faith from others, and add to the perception of Islam as a religion that is both insensitive and intolerant.  

baronvonreich
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baronvonreich 08/16/10 - 11:46 pm
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That logic is about as

That logic is about as similar and just as stupendously ignornant as blacks claiming the sight of a Confederate flag is insensitive and intolerant.

TheFederalist
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TheFederalist 08/16/10 - 11:47 pm
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Baron, your twisting of my

Baron, your twisting of my words and their meaning is beneath contempt, and I refuse to argue with someone so convinced of the absolute righteousness of your lame attempts to totally skew my premise. Please try and find someone else to try and impress.

TheFederalist
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TheFederalist 08/17/10 - 12:12 am
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Pathetic Baron. Have a good

Pathetic Baron. Have a good night.

TNULTH
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TNULTH 08/17/10 - 12:14 am
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life-size Heisman trophy at

life-size Heisman trophy at the site of the O.J. Simpson murders?

Yikes. Who's writing this stuff? A 13 year old? Just when you think the ACES can't get any lower, dumber, stupider, more ridiculous. But I've been waiting for this one. Even holding out hope that maybe the idea of religious freedom would resonate with some reasonable conservatives. Silly me, theres nothing "reasonable" about these faceless cowards on Broad Street.

jtra1n
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jtra1n 08/17/10 - 01:56 am
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It matters far less how we

It matters far less how we feel and much more what we do in times of uncertainty and disagreement. If we let how we feel about something destroy the constitution for which this country lives and breathes then the terrorists of 9/11 have undoubtedly accomplished what they set out to do. When conservatives debate issues such as immigration, gun control, and gay marriage they love to mutter that this is a "nation of laws". In this issue the law stands firmly with the Mosque constructers. Polls are interesting novelties of those who administer them but I'm sure when you ask people in NYC of various backgrounds who get their news from non-networks and DON'T ALREADY HATE Muslims the numbers change. And for any of those puzzled as to why the extremists of the world Muslim or otherwise, they'll have another reason should anything go wrong with this. The author is no more than pitching a fit against all Muslims at the end of it. NOTE:Very narrow-minded and childish

jtra1n
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jtra1n 08/17/10 - 01:59 am
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extremists of the world hate

extremists of the world hate us*

(sorry typin on phone :p)

GGpap
491
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GGpap 08/17/10 - 03:40 am
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“Should we also tolerate the

“Should we also tolerate the erection of a statue to Timothy McVeigh across from the Oklahoma City bombing site, or a life-size Heisman trophy at the site of the O.J. Simpson murders?”

No on both counts...but...by the standards the AC set in this article IF McVeigh was a Baptist there absolutely would not be a Baptist culture center and church built in the shadow of the Alfred P. Murrah building, nor IF O.J. was a Methodist there would never be a Methodist worship center built in the shadow of the site where the murders he was "acquitted" of were committed.

To carry the thought even further, never again should a christian cross be erected within a 1/2 mile of any site where our christian armies have slaughtered innocents. And NO, “christian” slaughter cannot be excused with the shameful and cowardly plea that collateral damage is unavoidable. To folks with any REAL moral fiber it would be absolutely unacceptable.

My Lai comes to mind...no collateral damage there; there should be no christian crosses near there either.

AC, by your editorial opinions you damn yourself as ultra conservatives with absolutely no morals and no sense of shame.

GGpap

KSL
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KSL 08/17/10 - 03:13 am
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GGpap, why do you say 100

GGpap, why do you say 100 miles? In this case we are not talking about a 100 mile scenario. You just pulled that right out of thin air. You are better than that.

GGpap
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GGpap 08/17/10 - 03:35 am
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KSL, you are correct. Thank

KSL, you are correct. Thank you. I was simply carried away by my unbridled disgust for the hypocrisy evidenced in this editorial by the AC.

Brad Owens
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Brad Owens 08/17/10 - 04:23 am
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Fed, I am not sure what part

Fed,

I am not sure what part of my statement is "churlish" (whatever that means) but it seems to me that you all are getting VERY upset and emotional over this.

That has been my thinking all along about you folks foaming at the mouth over this. You all are upset, angry, and emotional.

I will say it again, the President's position is my position. This is a constitutional issue, not a zoning one.

AGAIN, I don't want my own rights to be suppressed due to an opinion of someone else.

The Consitution is very clear about religious freedom and poor taste is not a reason to give up our values.

Brad

Brad Owens
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Brad Owens 08/17/10 - 04:24 am
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P.S. You and Harry Reid agree

P.S. You and Harry Reid agree on this...

johnston.cliff
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johnston.cliff 08/17/10 - 04:44 am
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Well, it's pretty obvious

Well, it's pretty obvious that the more shallow the thinking, the more likely to be liberal.

The point that so many "true liberals" don't seem to grasp is that the building of the mosque is not being denied. It's the celebratory location that is being taken (as intended) as an insult. If the mosque were proposed on a site 2,000 feet further from the mulsim assault (ground zero) there would be little, if any, objection, but that's not the way the muslim work. In typical muslim fashion, a mosque must be built on the site of a major victory. (re: world history)

A comparable action would be to wait until the mosque is full of muslim, destroy it, killing everyone inside, and building a major commercial center on the spot of the carnage ... for community out reach purposes ... even though the world muslim community was crying "foul" and demanding the zone be shown some respect.

johnston.cliff
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johnston.cliff 08/17/10 - 04:50 am
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"His modus operandi is to

"His modus operandi is to draw unflattering, unrepresentative caricatures of an opponent's argument in order to poke holes in a parody of his own making."

This technique was initiated and mastered during the early years of the Clinton administration and has been used by every liberal since. It's so common on the vast liberal news networks that lefties posting on this site use it as an every day speech pattern (as though it wasn't obvious) when parroting their assigned thoughts.

johnston.cliff
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johnston.cliff 08/17/10 - 04:55 am
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Brad, I take it you're one

Brad, I take it you're one of those that feel defecating on an American flag and setting it afire in the public square with the sole purpose of insulting Americans is just fine because it's protected "free speech".

As was asked in this article, where's the respect?

johnston.cliff
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johnston.cliff 08/17/10 - 04:58 am
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Brad, as far as your "Harry

Brad, as far as your "Harry Reid" comment goes .... even a blind and retarded squirrel stumbles on an occasional nut. Even though Reid tries, he doesn't get everything wrong.

Techfan
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Techfan 08/17/10 - 05:09 am
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I can't seem to find the

I can't seem to find the "insensitivity clause" in the Constitution.

Techfan
6461
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Techfan 08/17/10 - 05:22 am
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I can't seem to find the

I can't seem to find the "insensitivity clause" in the Constitution.

NewHere
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NewHere 08/17/10 - 05:25 am
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You can not pick and chose

You can not pick and chose when to apply or not apply the constitution, but for some conservatives that is ok, on less is the sacred 2nd amamendment, ... I just forgot this is the aces, so therefore it most be just another joke....ha ha ha

justus4
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justus4 08/17/10 - 06:28 am
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The so-called Confederate
Unpublished

The so-called Confederate Flag is offensive to ALL people of color in this country because it symbolizes murder, killing of innocent citizens, lynchings, rape and plunder, and suggests a pattern of atrocities directed toward African-Americans that the world has ever seen. So when ask to remove it from governmental areas out of "sympathy for the victims" , their civil & respectful request is met with contempt and slippery legislation effectively saying "We don't care about the past killings and lynchings because this is our heritage." (wink, wink) In fact, it's like having taxpayer dollars pay for the supposed mosque, because in the South, minorities who pay taxes are actually PAYING to be offended EVERY time they enter a court house. Wow! So this president hit a Grand Slam on this one and will further expose those religious bigots who can't see the forest for all those trees. Yep, the opinion title nails it, but like Momma used to say "Talk is easy done."

carcraft
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carcraft 08/17/10 - 05:49 am
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Obama says the Mosque can be

Obama says the Mosque can be built at ground Zero. Nobody is denying the right. We are asking what is appropriate. Please seperate the two. Obama closed his Ramadan meal (Obama has admited he is muslim)saying the muslims can build thier mosque there to cheers from the pro muslim crowd. A few short hours later Obama then states that he will not comment on if it is appropriate to build the mosque there. Will those visiting the site of thier loved ones death hear the Islam call to prayer ("one of the prettest sounds in the world" according to Obama) knowing thier loved ones were murdered in the name of Islam and the people that died in the airplanes were taunted about islam while going to thier deaths? I think we need Willie's southern pork rib shack to cook for the construction crew on the site of the mosque and then open a pork barberque rib shack on one side with a gay bar next door and a strip joint across the street from the entance to the mosque. Would it be legal? Yes Would it be appropriate? NO! Obama simply doesn't have the ability to make that distinction or won't!

carcraft
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carcraft 08/17/10 - 05:56 am
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Techfan-I can't see a right

Techfan-I can't see a right to privacy in the constitution but according to you liberals it is there! I see a right to own property in the constitution that can be abridged for immenant domain but according to liberals it can be abridged to increase tax base and help developers so perhaps if you liberals look close enough there is an insensitivity clause..Remember this is a "living" document!LOL

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