Pray this ruling is struck down

National Day of Prayer comes under attack yet again

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Have you read the Constitution lately? Did you notice the oft-used "everyone should always get his way" clause?

Neither did we.

Yet, Americans increasingly carry on as if, by some magic, everyone in the country can get his way. All the time.

Take the Freedom From Religion Foundation.

The anti-religion fringe group has read the Constitution to say they have a right to be free from religion. That means no mention of it by government and, they hope, in the public square.

They want to fundamentally transform American society, some 200 years in, to suit their own delicate tastes. They want their way. To heck with you and the rest of the country.

One of their attacks is on the National Day of Prayer. They decided to take it down -- to deny Americans the day because they don't like it and you shouldn't have it. So they filed suit.

They did a great job of judge-shopping, too, getting a Jimmy Carter holdover, federal Judge Barbara Crabb of Wisconsin -- who ruled last week that the day of prayer was unconstitutional.

That's just ridiculous.

The people who formed this nation called for a national day of prayer back in 1775. Did they, too, act "unconstitutionally"?

Nor does the day demand anything from anyone -- unlike, say, the recent health-care bill that requires you to purchase a product. It's simply a decision by a free and religious nation to remind itself in a formal way of the need to seek God's blessings.

At the same time, it should be a reminder to our elected leaders that their own power is far from supreme.

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Nat the Cat
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Nat the Cat 04/23/10 - 09:46 pm
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If the Founding Fathers'

If the Founding Fathers' intent was to omit God completely out of the Government, then why did they call for a National Day of Prayer at the same time that they wrote the Constitution?

The only possible answer is that the Founders did not intend for the Establishment Clause of the Constitution to be "strictly interpreted."

Thus, if the intent of the Founders was not to strictly construe the Separation of Church and State within the Constitution, then how could Judge Barbara Crabb of Wisconsin have possibly held that a National Day of Prayer could be Unconstitutional.

Before Atheist start cheering, wait for the Court of Appeals and/or the Supreme Court of the United States to decide this one--
We should all pray [perhaps a National Day of Prayer], that this Crabb's decision will be Reversed!

Sargebaby
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Sargebaby 04/23/10 - 09:29 pm
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The key phrase is "freedom

The key phrase is "freedom from Religion." The Constitution does NOT state "freedom from Religion, rather, it states "freedom of Religion," in different terminology. The athiestic chumps who read it, read it wrong! In fact, the 1st Amendment reads;

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Nowhere does it state freedom "from" Religion!

Nat the Cat
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Nat the Cat 04/23/10 - 09:37 pm
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Hey Sarge, I think I'll show

Hey Sarge, I think I'll show "civil disobedience" and Pray anyway! I hope I'm not arrested by my "State Comrades."

Sargebaby
4693
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Sargebaby 04/23/10 - 09:51 pm
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I must be a career criminal,

I must be a career criminal, then, Nat. I do it every day in places where you rarely see people pray! Like George says, buy ammo. They will never stop my prayers, or where I decide to pray!

orb
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orb 04/23/10 - 10:38 pm
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The 1st Amendment states:

The 1st Amendment states: "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

An arrogant Federal Court System has routinely violated this part of the Constitution by:

1. Extending the restriction to legislative bodies other than the Congress.

2. Prohibiting the free exercise of religion.

sjgraci
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sjgraci 04/23/10 - 10:40 pm
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Keep government out of

Keep government out of religion and religion out of government! Good for the judge and good for FFRF for bringing this lawsuit. Which, the chronicle failed to mention, IMAGINE that, is being defended by the Obama Administration which also filed the appeal on April 22.

Kind of hard for something to be "unconstitutional" in 1775 when the US Constitution was not created until 1787 and not ratified until 1788 and the Bill of Rights were not submitted until 1789 and adopted in 1791.

The NDP walks a thin line between the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. This is especially true when Presidents like Bush proclaim NDP and hold Evangelical Christian services on the day in conjunction with the other defendants in the case Focus on the Family's Shirley Dobson. Yes, that Dobson. Wonder how Dobson and the chronicle would feel if Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Pagan services and prayers were held on NDP by the government?

No one in the government is keeping you from praying to any God(s) you desire or not. When government does deny you that right, Civil Libertarians, ACLU, PFAW, and Americans United will be the first to defend you and Judge Crabb will rule in your favor.

orb
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orb 04/23/10 - 10:57 pm
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sjgraci I believe all that is

sjgraci

I believe all that is what some would call buffalo chips!

johnston.cliff
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johnston.cliff 04/23/10 - 11:05 pm
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Big stack o' chips.

Big stack o' chips.

Lobosolo
5
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Lobosolo 04/23/10 - 11:46 pm
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Pray tell me (no pun

Pray tell me (no pun intended) why you folks have such little faith in your faith. Tell, me, Mister Johnson, which part of sjraci's post is buffalo chips (I'm surprised you get away with your petty name-calling, BTW, given your propensity to cry to the web master so much when somebody hurts your feelers. How do they justify that?)? You CAN pray anytime you want, anywhere you want. Just do it and QUIT CRYING SO MUCH!!! Gracious, it's like you people wake up TRYING to find something to cry about. Phil Gramm was right about one thing... this nation has become a bunch of crybabies... right-wing crybabies.

orgpsych
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orgpsych 04/24/10 - 02:21 am
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I'll try to keep this to only

I'll try to keep this to only two cents worth.

The 1st Amendment preventing the free exercise of religion sets the basis for the "freedom from religion" argument. That said, the issue being discussed here should ne a non-issue if ever there was one.

We proclaim Black History moth yet I am not required to read any prescribed texts in that area nor am I required to attend any meetings or seminars. Yet this event happens each and every year.

Mothers Day and Father's Day are not established religious holidays nor are they established by the Constitution. We are not required to become either mothers or fathers on those days, nor are we required to attend any kind of indoctrination. Yet we celebrate them each and every year at approximately the same times.

Establishing a National Day of Prayer should be seen in the same context. No one should be required to pray and, if they choose to, to pray to any one God or in any prescribed fashion. It should simply be an ACKNOWLEDGEMENT of something that is near and dear to so many.

The 1st Amendment prevents Congress from establishing Christianity as the official state religion. If we accept the notion that this nation is primarily Christian, it also prevents the advocation of Baptist or Fundamentalism, or Catholicism as the preferred form of Christianity. There SHOULD be a separation of church and state for this very reason.

The President holding church services of any kind in conjunction with NDP would certainly push to the limit what I believe that passage means. It could easily be construed as endorsing one religion over another. If anyone else had conducted organized services of any kind on conjunction with NDP it woud be an entirely different matter.

The suit to dismiss the NDP should have been tossed as frivolous. If the President wishes to establish a non-denominational and non-binding National Day of Prayer, that should be his/her prerogative. That should then be the end of it.

Judicial activism swings both ways. Judges who legislate from the bench against the free exercise of religion should be held to the same standard as those who legislate from the bench in favor of it. A higher court needs to step in and overrule this and admonish the lesser court for stepping into areas that are outside their purview.

No harm was done by the proclamation unless someone simply wishes to be offended.

JohnRandolphHardisonCain
576
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JohnRandolphHardisonCain 04/24/10 - 04:16 am
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I notice that ACES does not

I notice that ACES does not mention the fact that the "invitation" given to Franklin Graham to speak at the Pentagon next month has been withdrawn. When advocating an organized and officially sanctioned "National Day of Prayer" supposedly open to all faiths, evangelical Christians are caught in a Catch 22 of their own making. This is a Catch 22 for evangelical Christians because while ostensible supporting the Constitutional guaranteed right of freedom of religion their religion also maintains that Christianity is the only true religion or at least the only religion by which one can get to heaven through faith in Jesus Christ and Christ alone.

Franklin Graham and I note Sargebaby as well have repeatedly disparaged the great, monotheistic, Abrahamic religion of Islam. Graham has repeatedly called Islam "evil". Some freedom of religion for one who would have spoken at the Pentagon's National Day of Prayer service!

Anyone who can follow a logical progression can understand how the freedom of religion clause in the Constitution also guarantees the right of freedom from religion. The state has no right to impose a particular religion on anyone, nor can the state impose or sanction a non-denominational form of religion on believers or non-believers in the public sphere. sjgraci, Lobosolo, and orgpsych are correct in their assessments.

The National Day of Prayer task force based in Colorado Springs, a group that organizes Christian events for the prayer day designated by Congress, seeks to impose its form of religion on others. Why aren't speakers from the scores of other religions that are freely practiced in this country, including religions that are abhorrent to evangelical Christians, also included in a national day of prayer? Clearly it is best to leave organized religion out of public observances even as ACES and others bemoan the fact that their preferred religion is no longer being officially sanctioned by the government.

The bottom line is their freedom of religion continues to be guaranteed while our freedom from their effort to impose their religion on us is also being guaranteed. The religious left and non-believers in this country have exactly the same rights that the organized religious right has in this country.

Dixieman
17550
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Dixieman 04/24/10 - 04:13 am
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Pray for the ACLU - it just

Pray for the ACLU - it just might work, and even if it doesn't it will really irritate them!

deekster
24
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deekster 04/24/10 - 04:44 am
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Prayer for the ACLU is not in

Prayer for the ACLU is not in the "will of God". Since the will of God is for this "present world system" to end. And the "will of God cannot fail". The ACLU and all Socialist/Totalitarians are hastening the "end of days". Jimmuh Cotta, raised in a Southern Baptist Church, Sunday School teacher. is a raving Socialist and promoter of "a state religion".

justus4
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justus4 04/24/10 - 04:46 am
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The fundamental right to
Unpublished

The fundamental right to practice your religion is firm, but SOME PEOPLE not only want to practice, they want to use the influence of government to PROMOTE that same religion. It is an example of religious "supremacy" that has a long history of human atrocities. And the writer ponders whether, back in 1775, did they act "unconstitutional?" Well, the Bill of Right offered a human standard for ALL humans, but they failed to adhere to those standards regarding people of color. In my view, religion & prayer have something to do with living standards and the treatment of other humans, and in that effort, they failed.

Tigger_The_Tiger
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Tigger_The_Tiger 04/24/10 - 06:16 am
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sjgraci and cain have the

sjgraci and cain have the typical liberal response. "To hell with what the Constitution actually says.........this is just the way the think it ought to be."

I think it would be nice if all 50 states instituted their own "state day of prayer" since the first amendment has no such wording to prevent any individual state from even establishing their own official religion. That power which congress does not have, is reserved for the states or the people by the tenth amendment.

FaceTheMusic
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FaceTheMusic 04/24/10 - 07:17 am
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sjgraci - Excellent post!

sjgraci - Excellent post! Pesky things, those things called facts. No where in the Constitution is anyone denied the right to pray. Just get down on your knees right now in your living rooms and pray, pray, pray. (Go ahead, I'll wait). I'll just bet not a single person in the world will care! Not a single healthcare IRS agent out looking for grandmas to pull the plug on will come into your home to carry you off to a socialist Muslim prison camp. Go out in your front yards and pray, walk down the sidewalk and pray, get in your cars and ride around and pray, pray, pray. I will staunchly defend your right to do so. And when I go to church this Sunday, which it is my Constitutional right to do, I will pray for you. But just don't ask the federal government to sponsor it for you! Keep the government out of religion, and keep religion out of government! Some of the worst persecutions in history have occurred when religion got mixed up in government. Another one of those pesky things is education!

InChristLove
22485
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InChristLove 04/24/10 - 07:29 am
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It's truly sad that thousands

It's truly sad that thousands of Muslims can gather together and pray on our Nationals Capital, and that's allowed, but let a minister of God speak at a National Day of Prayer event and all heck breaks loose.

KSL
144450
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KSL 04/24/10 - 07:34 am
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No tax payer's money should

No tax payer's money should be spent on separate prayer facilities for Muslims in public schools then. Let Muslim children go to schools provided by their mosques. No prayer in public schools should mean that across the board.

deportem
94
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deportem 04/24/10 - 08:42 am
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Some Federal judge can

Some Federal judge can attempt to trample my rights all he/she wants. I, as millions of other Americans will do, is simply to ignore or violate the unjust law!
Of course, Obama will probably say we are "misguided"--just like the Arizona lawmakers that passed the toughest anti Illegal Alien law in America.

realamerican
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realamerican 04/24/10 - 09:35 am
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Dearest editorial board, In

Dearest editorial board, In 1775 nothing was constitutional or unconstitutional. It helps when looking toward original intent to know when things happen and what the situation was. It may have been a good, just and pure action by those who made the 1775 declaration. But nothing was constitutional until after 1787. Look into getting a fact checker.

GaCookie
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GaCookie 04/24/10 - 10:04 am
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Freedom of religion should

Freedom of religion should work both ways. The observance of religious holidays does not force anything upon the non-religious - they have the right to go on with their day just like everyone else - no laws being broken; however, by deeming any religious holiday "unconstitutional" it does force something upon those who are religious. Please explain to me how "National Prayer Day" hurts anyone who is not religious? Does it force the non-believer to pray? NO! What's next??? Disallowing Christmas? Hannukah? Good Friday? Easter? It is a slippery slope when the government our country was founded upon is upstaged by a left wing-nut of a judicial system. Why should my religious rights be upstaged and taken away constantly by a group of non-believers? Why is it more politically correct to say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas"? While it is true that many wars have been and are being fought in the name of religion, many of those wars are indeed being fought by extremists around the globe. In my opinion (and this is only my opinion) the very act of trying to take away religious rights is the root cause of many. The great thing about America has always been the freedom to practice any religion or not to practice a religion.

crackerjack
153
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crackerjack 04/24/10 - 10:41 am
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"The people who formed this

"The people who formed this nation called for a national day of prayer back in 1775. Did they, too, act 'unconstitutionally'?"

They might have called for it, but actually the law formalizing its observance was enacted by Congress in 1952.

orb
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orb 04/24/10 - 11:35 am
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Cain You say: "Franklin

Cain

You say: "Franklin Graham and I note Sargebaby as well have repeatedly disparaged the great, monotheistic, Abrahamic religion of Islam. Graham has repeatedly called Islam "evil". Some freedom of religion for one who would have spoken at the Pentagon's National Day of Prayer service!"

Where do you get the idea that Islam is an Abrahamic religion. I know that the Mohammedans push this idea but Islam is the religion started by Mohammed, no one else. It is an evil religion which has the goal of the destruction of the one true religion, Christianity; by force if necessary!

Tigger_The_Tiger
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Tigger_The_Tiger 04/24/10 - 12:17 pm
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How else would you describe a

How else would you describe a religion, which in it's holy writing, commands its followers to kill anyone who is not a believer?

Whyisit01
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Whyisit01 04/24/10 - 01:01 pm
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WHAT no mention of Obama by

WHAT no mention of Obama by this editor WHAT... I'm sure had this article mentioned his name it would be well over 300 post.

JohnRandolphHardisonCain
576
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JohnRandolphHardisonCain 04/24/10 - 01:02 pm
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The above two posts (one by

The above two posts (one by org and the other by Tigger_The_Tiger) are examples of why an interfaith national day of prayer under the auspices of the Constitutional guarantee of freedom of religion is impossible. They are among the evangelical Christian crusaders who think that both their religion and their military might are supreme. This is exactly the type of thinking exemplified by the Christian right, by Christian Zionists, by such people as Franklin Graham, James Dobson, John Hagee, Michael Youssef, and our own retired military supremacist and self-professed Christian and disparager of Islam, Sargebaby.

Both Sargebaby and Tigger_The_Tiger claim to have read and understand the Koran. Tigger_The_Tiger is lying when he writes that Islam commands its followers to kill anyone who is not a believer. Below is a link to follow if you wish to begin understanding the real Islam which is one of the three, monotheistic religions (the other two are Judaism and Christianity) that trace their linage back to Abraham the prophet.

"South Park Controversy and Fallacies of Muslim Extremists" posted by Juan Cole | Informed Comment | April 22, 2010:

http://www.juancole.com/2010/04/south-park-controversy-and-fallacies-of-...

airbud7
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airbud7 04/24/10 - 02:33 pm
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I see now why johnston.cliff

I see now why johnston.cliff left this post, you cats are crazy!!!

Republicant
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Republicant 04/24/10 - 03:56 pm
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Let em pray if they want to.

Let em pray if they want to. Who cares.
But Sarge, it doesnt say freedom OF religion anywhere either....

brimisjoshan
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brimisjoshan 04/24/10 - 04:03 pm
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Cain, I disagree with you and

Cain, I disagree with you and really don't feel like debating the fallacies of your argument. Try as you want, it is totally illogical to believe that the original framers of our constitution and signers of our Declaration of Independence were wanting to be free of any sort of religion. 2 thirds of the signers of the consititution had graduated from seminaries. Congress would spend hours in prayer before they would enter into session. The Day of prayer was spent with much fasting and dedication to prayer by the country. Of course it seems that since non-believers don't like the facts they just rewrite history to suit themselves.

Republicant
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Republicant 04/24/10 - 04:10 pm
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Tigger, the conservatives on

Tigger, the conservatives on this board are just as guilty as the libs you mentioned that believe the constitution is a living breathing document. Nowhere in the constitution does it state this is a christian nation, yet many conservatives say that's what the founders meant.

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