God help the republic

Democrats stooping to chicanery to push health care through without a vote

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Democrats are looking under every rock for ways they can approve a widely unpopular and ominous health care reform bill without actually voting for it and being blamed for it in November.

It's historic, amazing and frightening: Democratic leaders are trying to remake one-sixth of the American economy -- and trying to avoid having to vote to do it! Late last week and early this week, Democrats were trying to write a special rule saying they don't have to vote to approve the Senate health bill in order to pass it. Figure that one out!

It's nothing like anything we've ever seen in a democratic republic.

Among many outrages, it's amazing the Democratic Congress would kowtow so much to the executive branch. Once the executive branch has that much power, it will be tough for lawmakers to get it back.

Not too long ago, Democrats were calling bitterly for an up-or-down vote on health care. Now they're doing everything they can to avoid one, and still get their way -- a way that a majority of Americans oppose.

Good heavens, why on Earth would Democrats even want to push this through with cheap magicians' tricks? Shouldn't such a huge makeover of American society have more of a popular mandate than that -- not to mention a constitutional basis?

If Democrats get their way, and shove their government takeover of health care down our throats using sleight-of-hand machinations, God help the republic.

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JohnRandolphHardisonCain
576
Points
JohnRandolphHardisonCain 03/15/10 - 06:13 pm
0
0
President Obama loses either

President Obama loses either way IMO. If he fails to get this bill passed after spending so much of his political capital on it, he is weakened politically and will be less likely to get disputed legislation passed in future. If Obama wins, Republicans will beat him over the head with it for the next 2 years 8 months until the 2012 elections.

Obama's fatal errors were failing to close Guantanamo, failing to end the U.S. war in Iraq, and his horrible decisions to escalate the U.S. war in Afghanistan and expand the U.S. war on terror into Pakistan. Unending wars spell economic doom for United States. Health care reform could and should have waited for peace and a measure of economic recovery.

Notreally
4
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Notreally 03/15/10 - 06:31 pm
0
0
He will be alright. Seems

He will be alright. Seems the AC is right in line with feeding and rendering their daily portion of FEAR.

Sargebaby
4693
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Sargebaby 03/15/10 - 06:33 pm
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0
Cain, your emphatic

Cain, your emphatic predictions have failed again and again. Obama hasn't created any "fatal errors," yet. His bill will fail, and conservatives are going to rub his nose it. Unless you haven't noticed, the war is ending, slowly, but it's ending nonetheless! Healthcare may have worked if the Dems had been more open to non-partisan cooperation, rather than jamming an unexplained bill down our throats. Economic recovery has been in the hands of God for the past ten years. When a country and its government get in the shape we're in now, the only solution is to ask for God's guidance, not moan and accuse the president. Attacking Obama for the condition of our country is tantamount to blaming Bush for the attack on the twin towers. It just ain't right!

corgimom
38835
Points
corgimom 03/15/10 - 06:51 pm
0
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"Created in a budget

"Created in a budget resolution in 1974 as part of the congressional budget process, the reconciliation process is utilized when Congress issues directives to legislate policy changes in mandatory spending (entitlements) or revenue programs (tax laws) to achieve the goals in spending and revenue contemplated by the budget resolution. First used in1980 this process was used at the end of a fiscal year to enact legislation to fine tune revenue and spending levels through legislation that could not be filibustered in the Senate. The policy changes brought about by this part of the budget process have served as constraints on the levels of mandatory spending and federal tax revenues which also has served since 1981 as a vehicle for deficit reduction. The reconciliation process is an optional procedure and not a required action by Congress every fiscal year as is passage of the concurrent budget resolution. However, during the eighteen year period from 1980 to 1998 thirteen reconciliation measures have been enacted into law and numerous others have been considered by Congress. Occasionally, reconciliation legislation has included certain such enforcement mechanisms as extensions of the discretionary spending limits and PAYGO requirements or even reforms to the budget process. Whether for tax reduction, tax increases, deficit reduction, mandatory spending increases or decreases or adjustments in the public debt limit, this process has been used to focus many agents on one goal."

AC, when George W. Bush used this to produce tax cuts and increased the budget deficit, where were you then? Or was that ok because it was Republicans that did it?

Like nothing you've ever seen in a democratic republic? Really?

You would do far better to write an editorial rebuking Congress for their lack of cooperation and the terrible results of "We will fight against your party/and in return you will fight us back" and how this bi-partisanship is ruining the country and crippling Congress. And how this bi-partisanship is leading to things like budget reconciliation.

wyochuck
0
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wyochuck 03/15/10 - 06:59 pm
0
0
too long winded to bother

too long winded to bother reading

wyochuck
0
Points
wyochuck 03/15/10 - 07:01 pm
0
0
the democrats could care less

the democrats could care less about stupid things like "polls"--or the "WILL OF THE PEOPLE"

wyochuck
0
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wyochuck 03/15/10 - 07:49 pm
0
0
notreally---"daily portion of

notreally---"daily portion of fear"? do you live in a cave ? ever heard anything about national debt ? heck yea, fear is a good word--to people who understand the entire u.s. economy could collapse under this [37 brand new filtered words] president.

gaspringwater
3
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gaspringwater 03/15/10 - 09:38 pm
0
0
Keep your fingers crossed

Keep your fingers crossed folks. The Bible says the meek shall inherit the earth. JUST MAYBE little guys can beat the special interest crowd and get health care before they inherit the earth later.

TheFederalist
1
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TheFederalist 03/16/10 - 10:10 am
0
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Yeah Gasp, just maybe, using

Yeah Gasp, just maybe, using every conceivable parlimentary trick, in ways that were never intended, they can successfully ram this monstrosity down our collective throats. OK..let's assume that it passes, and Mr. Hussein gets his big one. He signs it into law. Now what. Can all the people bleating about not having health care now go to a doctor? Nope. Can someone with a pre-existing condition now get health care? Nope. Can someone who is dying because they don't have any health care, live another year? Nope. This monstrosity's benefits do not even start to kick in, until 2012, and most not until 2014, but guess when the 500 million in Medicare cuts start? Yep.. Guess when the 12 pages of new IRS taxes kick in to try and pay for this boondoggle? Yep... Immediately...as soon as Mr. Hussein puts pen to paper. So, since the american people are decidedly against this, and now, for the next few years nothing will change except the draconian expansion of the government, so they can tax the heck out of us all, that should stir the pot even more, and add fuel to the public unrest. Well, my feeling is that the anger and frustrations will mount, and by the time Mr. Hussein trys to win a second term, it should be pretty comical. That is, or course, if he even runs. Besides, I'm going to be optimistic. It now gives us the next few elections to win back control of both houses, and make Mr. Hussein a lame duck for the rest of his only term. Then we can get the SCOTUS, to throw the entire thing out as unconstitutional, as the government cannot mandate that americans buy anything. Including Health Care. Finally, if unsuccessful to that point, after a Republican is back in the WH, we can then repeal this entire load of dung. Lol. Now, grouse, gasp, jhrc, not, time to start ranting on about fear, ohhh be afraid! Boo! Socialism! Rush! Beck! Fox! etc. You know, the usual tripe and venom you guys spew. Have at it.

TheFederalist
1
Points
TheFederalist 03/16/10 - 10:11 am
0
0
Btw..Almost forgot. All this

Btw..Almost forgot. All this nonsense about education, health care, etc being "Rights" that we all should have from cradle to grave is sheer hogwash. Our "Rights", as spelled out in the Declaration of Independence, come from God, not the government. When you confuse the two, you get tyranny on a grand scale. It's been tried before, several times. It's known as "Communism", or "Marxism", or "Nazism", or any of several other "isms" and it always fails.

johnston.cliff
2
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johnston.cliff 03/16/10 - 04:00 am
0
0
corgimom, your ridiculously

corgimom, your ridiculously wrong comment of 7:51 is a parroting of the hard left. "AC, when George W. Bush used this to produce tax cuts and increased the budget deficit, where were you then? Or was that ok because it was Republicans that did it?" The tax cuts INCREASED the revenue to the federal government. The war spending increased the deficit. To ask your question of you, where were you then?

Riverman1
94498
Points
Riverman1 03/16/10 - 04:12 am
0
0
Bush never violated the Byrd

Bush never violated the Byrd Rule which this bill will do. It's pretty simple to me: insuring 30 million without insurance is going to cost those who pay more and dilute the quality of health care those who pay now will receive in the future. Hard to get around that.

johnston.cliff
2
Points
johnston.cliff 03/16/10 - 04:18 am
0
0
When Karl Marx decided he

When Karl Marx decided he knew more about how to properly live the lives of the populous, he wrote the communist manifesto so they would know what was expected of them. This morphed into Leninism and Stalinism and fascism and NAZIism and maoism and all forms of socialism where the imperial government will dole out your possessions to you at a rate they think you can handle and will redistribute everything else to those who don't have enough to handle (for whatever reason). The only real drawback to the socialist nanny government idea is that it ALWAYS involves enslaving the population of whatever country it "saves". The "protected borders" become necessary to keep the people in. Obama, who worships at the alter of Marx, and his minions that have control of today's Dem party, actually feel they're saving this country by seizing the auto industry and the health industry and whatever industry they wish to seize so they can take care of the dumb masses. Of course, as the elite, they'll have different guidelines so they'll be able to shepherd the dumb masses in a manner the dumb masses can contend with. Nirvana ... if you fall into the category of dumb masses. The Obama social experiment has been a dismal and dangerous failure and needs to be stopped sooner rather than later.

dashiel
176
Points
dashiel 03/16/10 - 05:34 am
0
0
At last Cheney's undisclosed

At last Cheney's undisclosed location bunker has been located. It is underneath the Augusta Chronicle's editorial board. Giddy-up horsey! Women and children follow me!!

southernguy08
532
Points
southernguy08 03/16/10 - 05:40 am
0
0
GROUSE, why don't you call
Unpublished

GROUSE, why don't you call "universal" healthcare what it really is? It is government run, taxpayer funded healthcare, and this bill isn't fully understood by most members of congress, who haven't even read it thoroughly. In the immortal words of House speaker Nancy Pelosi, "We have to pass the bill, so you can find out what's in it." I think those "words of wisdom" speak for themselves.

johnston.cliff
2
Points
johnston.cliff 03/16/10 - 05:54 am
0
0
well said gasp. At least

well said gasp. At least you're honest about wanting to take from the productive. Socialism is all about the power of the elite and the slaves they share other people's money with.

chascush
0
Points
chascush 03/16/10 - 07:40 am
0
0
Obamacare is doomed too

Obamacare is doomed too bankrupt this country. We are starting off in the hole. They have spent ALL the money we paid into SS and Medicare. We are not like Sweden where most able bodied people work. We have about 15 - 20% of able bodied dead beats living off the tax payers. It will only get worse with Obamacare,

Rhetor
1082
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Rhetor 03/16/10 - 07:42 am
0
0
More factual errors here than

More factual errors here than one can shake a stick at. First, the health care bill does not affect 1/6 of the economy. It regulates current health insurance to reduce fraud by insurance companies, and it provides subsidies for the uninsured (the only part of the proposal that could possibly be called "socialist"). It does not change Medicare, the VA, or any other current program. All in all, it affects far less than 1/6 of the economy. Second, "Federalist," the Constitution does not mention God. Read the Constitution for yourself and you will see this. Third, there is no parliamentary trickery here. Both houses of Congress have passed a health care bill, and reconciliation is a proper step. It is the Republicans who, by making continuous use of the filibuster, have been using parliamentary tricks to block the people's will. Finally, poll have shown strong public support for the bill's provisions--opposition has been based on outright falsehoods (keep government out of Medicare, death panels, and all of that rubbish). The conservatives' fear tactics, dishonesty, and hypocrisy might yet fail them.

dominionfs
0
Points
dominionfs 03/16/10 - 07:54 am
0
0
Seems to me the majority

Seems to me the majority agree this is a debt ridden piece of legislation designed to bankrupt America.
If this administration and congress were listening to 'The People's Will' Rhetor, then they would be focusing on jobs and the economy.

GAterp
2
Points
GAterp 03/16/10 - 08:05 am
0
0
How about simply because it

How about simply because it is the RIGHT thing to do! I find it ironic that the Leftists are doing the right thing! Quit moaning and go watch American Idol so that you can really vote!

southernguy08
532
Points
southernguy08 03/16/10 - 09:00 am
0
0
Funny how the Leftists like
Unpublished

Funny how the Leftists like GATERP think the RIGHT thing to do always involves a government run program, paid for by the taxpayers. Check the polls pal, they show, just like American Idol (which I've never seen) this bill has been voted off. Congressional members that vote for it, will find that out this November.

TheFederalist
1
Points
TheFederalist 03/16/10 - 10:00 am
0
0
Not true Rhetor!!!! The

Not true Rhetor!!!! The massive expansion of government that will result from this abomination will absolutely take over every aspect of health care in this country, and most experts are all in agreement that it will constitute 1/6th of the entire US economy. Like most leftists, you like to twist words, but this is the truth, contrary to what you may think. NEXT: what exactly do you think this passage from the Declaration of Independence means, if it doesn't refer to God? "that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Guess your idea of Creator is the government eh? That figures! NEXT: Absolutely parlimentary trickery is being employed here, as this "reconciliation" procedure has NEVER in history been used to try to pass massive sweeping social change like this before, and that was NEVER the intention of this procedure. Further, NEVER in history has it been attempted with NO VOTES from the opposition. Now, btw, they are actually considering imbedding a "self implementing" rule and "DEEMING" the bill passed? What the HELL do you think this is, if not a parlimentary trick???? Also, another distortion sir, is your untruth about Republican obstruction, as THEY DID NOT HAVE THE VOTES TO FILIBUSTER ANYTHING since Mr. Hussein took office. Finally, your distortion of polling data is another falsehood, as OVERWHELMING poll data shows, without a doubt, that the American people DO NOT WANT THIS! Yes, they are all for certain parts, as are all Americans, but they do NOT want this entire massive abomination shoved down our throats by underhanded, illegal methods. Factual errors sir? Hogwash!

TheFederalist
1
Points
TheFederalist 03/16/10 - 09:30 am
0
0
GAtwerp, how about you paying

GAtwerp, how about you paying for my health care, because I think it is "THE RIGHT THING TO DO"?? That is exactly what this abomination will do, in effect, only I'm pretty sure it will be the other way around. Further, trivialization of this issue, by using your "cute" American Idol remark, is why the left is under fire now, as the American People don't think this is funny at all.

Rhetor
1082
Points
Rhetor 03/16/10 - 10:09 am
0
0
Federalist, let's please try

Federalist, let's please try again. Your original claim (2:33 am post) was that the Constitution discussed God-given rights. The Declaration of Independence is not the Constitution. Your more recent post rightly retreated from your original claim. Second, both parties have routinely used reconciliation countless times for major legislation. Anyone who has had a decent high-school government course should know that. Third, when the Republicans voted mindlessly as a bloc, routinely filibustering even bills that they themselves co-sponsored, for the simple purpose of obstruction, then they were indeed able to stop much needed legislation. Fourth, there are now 41 Republicans in the Senate, enough to filibuster anything. Historically, even the most dyed-in-the-wool conservatives used to use the filibuster quite rarely. Finally, if this bill is truly an abomination, why did conservatives feel the need to oppose it with outrageous falsehoods (death panels, pulling the plug on Grandma, and all of that other rot)? If the bill is truly bad, they should be able to oppose it without resorting to fabrications. I reiterate that the Democrats' actions do not seem out of line, when properly viewed in historical context. Health care reform is a desperate need. The Republicans have proposed nothing that will reduce insurance company fraud or provide some way for private individuals to purchase health insurance.

themaninthemirror
0
Points
themaninthemirror 03/16/10 - 10:21 am
0
0
Rhetor-why did conservatives

Rhetor-why did conservatives feel the need to oppose it with outrageous falsehoods (death panels, pulling the plug on Grandma, and all of that other rot)?"- Didn't Obama say the best way to treat Grandma's chest pain was to " give her an aspirin"? Nothing is being fabricated by the republicans, the truth is simply being told.

carcraft
28652
Points
carcraft 03/16/10 - 10:31 am
0
0
I asked for two days in a row

I asked for two days in a row how 10 years of taxes for 6 years of health care was sustainable. The SILENCE from the crikets on the left almost made me deaf..If the fedral government goes broke, can't barrow money, can't fund food stamps, earned income tax credits, medicare, etc HOW CAN THE GOVERNMENT HELP ANYBODY? It may seem like the right thing to do like maybe I should give every cent I own to the food bank to feed the poor so can't pay my bills can't support my family etc and still keep giving and I will then need a hand out my self...get real people..Obama the Democrates are double counting 500 BILLION dollars of medicare money..this thing is a boon doggle..If I am wrong show me..like you did when I ask how 10 years of taxes for 6 years of service is sustainable!!!!!

GAterp
2
Points
GAterp 03/16/10 - 10:32 am
0
0
Get Health Care now, then

Get Health Care now, then we'll worry about November when it gets here. Of course, the rest of you scaredy cats will worry about it every day until November. Fearmongers be gone!

Sargebaby
4693
Points
Sargebaby 03/16/10 - 10:32 am
0
0
Mirrorman, did you read the

Mirrorman, did you read the bill when it contained that language? So called "death panels, pulling the plug on Grandma, and all of that other rot," was most certainly contained therein. The terminology wasn't the same, but the proposals were included.

TheFederalist
1
Points
TheFederalist 03/16/10 - 10:33 am
0
0
Rhetor, please let's try

Rhetor, please let's try again. Ok, so the Declaration of Independence is not part of the Constitution. What's your point? Guess the document that founded our nation has less impact then? NEXT: Has reconciliation been used before? Yes, and by both sides. BUT..NEVER for massive expansion of the government and sweeping social change like this, that even the originator of this rule, Robert Byrd says, was never intended to be used for this type of sweeping social legislation. So then, you want to argue with the man who authored the legislation? You go right ahead sir. NEXT: How many times do I have to say it Rhetor? Until the election of Scott Brown, in MA, the Republicans DID NOT HAVE THE VOTES TO FILIBUSTER ANYTHING! The Democrats had filibuster proof majorities is both houses of Congress. So...is it me or you that is stretching the truth sir? Further, under the "NEW" rules for health care reform legislation, they do not have the "Right" to filibuster this legislation. How convienient! Maybe if I type it REAL SLOW you will understand this point? NEXT: The Republicans have offered ASTOUNDING amounts of ideas, fixes, etc, like Tort Reform, Interstate insurance purchasing, etc, etc, etc., but these ideas would not expand the government nor impoverish our nation for decades to come, so they were totally rejected by the Democrats. I reiterate sir, that the Democrat's actions, regarding this bill, are UNPRECEDENTED in American history, when considering this type of massive, sweeping social legislation that will effect everyone in the United States.

GAterp
2
Points
GAterp 03/16/10 - 10:34 am
0
0
Carcraft, God helps those who

Carcraft, God helps those who help themselves. Answer you own worrisome questions. We are not scared anymore. Help Anybody? Help yourself! Why should I or any other normal thinking person help you because you're scared out of your own wits! Ha, ha.

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