Can we talk?

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We're not sure abortion has ever been debated this way on the national stage -- and it's a welcome development.

It all started when conservative advocacy group Focus on the Family decided to feature college football star Tim Tebow and his mother in a Super Bowl television ad, poignantly describing how she gave birth to him despite medical advice not to.

Radical feminists initially and vociferously attacked the life-affirming ad with unrestrained vitriol and unhinged descriptions of the ad as "unAmerican hate." Of course, that's raccoon-in-the-woods kind of rabid.

Now, however, Planned Parenthood has entered the debate with a slick, gentle ad seeking to answer the Tebows'. It comes too late to air at the Super Bowl, but was put online.

In it, several male athletes talk about respecting women and their choices. It's very well done, and does cool the rhetoric down to a reasonable level of debate.

In that spirit of civil debate, we'd like to take issue with several assertions in the Planned Parenthood message.

"I respect and honor Mrs. Tebow's decision," says athlete Sean James.

That's admirable and appreciated. Yet, it's hardly been the reaction of most feminist groups. Those of us in the pro-life community feel that many in the pro-choice contingent are pro-choice only when it comes to abortion. When the choice is life, you tend to get the kind of bile cited above.

Why can't pro-choicers join with pro-lifers in touting life, as the Tebows are doing? Why can't they find it in themselves to even acknowledge that life is a superior choice? Isn't it?

At the very least, it's a choice. And it's one that every one of our mothers chose.

"I want my daughter to live in a world where everyone's decisions are respected," says athlete Al Joyner.

It's a commendable-sounding sentiment -- but let's look under the hood a bit.

Mr. Joyner's statement makes it sound as if all decisions are equal and are worthy of respect. Clearly, rationally, that's just simply not the case. Decisions to rape, to bomb airliners, to rob, to cheat -- the list of decisions that are worthy of contempt, rather than respect, is long indeed.

If Mr. Joyner wants respect for people, we agree. But if he wants to use emotional blackmail to have that also mean that any and all decisions they make must be respected, then count us out.

"We're working toward the day where every woman will be valued," Mr. James says.

Great! We happen to think everyone should be valued -- including future women and men in the womb.

We welcome the tenor of debate that these two ads create. We hope the pro-life and pro-choice communities continue to engage each other in just such a respectful, civil debate -- and, at the same time, they get to the heart of the issue, which is whether the unborn have a right to live; and whether we, whose mothers chose life, have an obligation to extend that same precious gift to the rest of humanity.

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Nat the Cat
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Nat the Cat 02/06/10 - 11:00 pm
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Pro-choicers can always

Pro-choicers can always proudly say that Tim Tebow was just 1 in 50 million. Look at the other 49,999,999 million kids that would have been homeless, addicts, derelicts, no-goods, and criminals that we have saved society from.

TheFederalist
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TheFederalist 02/06/10 - 11:58 pm
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I guess it's easy to say that

I guess it's easy to say that you value life, and that you also value the mother's right to choose, but honestly, is that really true? Imho, and in the spirit of respectful, civil debate, I think it all comes down to just this one very important point. Who speaks for the unborn? Where is his/her right to choose? I think it is disingenuous to say that you value life, when you totally disregard this one, simple question. I think the question that everyone should be asking is, would you be so absolutely certain that the only thing that counts is the Mother's right to choose, if you were the one being aborted? I think not. Ok, I have weighed in softly because I know this is a sensitive issue. No harm intended, but at least everyone knows where I stand. Peace.

Petey Aitchess
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Petey Aitchess 02/07/10 - 01:43 am
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Federalist - I am standing

Federalist - I am standing there next to you. Nice comment.

overburdened_taxpayer
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overburdened_taxpayer 02/07/10 - 06:21 am
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I am also standing there with

I am also standing there with you Federalist. Well said to both you and the AC.

seenitB4
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seenitB4 02/07/10 - 06:23 am
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Do I value life,,,YES..Do I

Do I value life,,,YES..Do I think abortion should be used as birth control,NO...But when a woman is raped(happens more than U know)she has a right to make a decision about her body..if she is in danger because of pregnancy she has a right to make a decision about her body..When a woman needs a drs. treatment to make her well again, & she is refused; it would be like sending a wreck victim to the hosp. with a broken leg & saying sorry, we can't help U.. You will have to live with that broken leg for the rest of your life..I know MANY won't get this..but like I have said before...to all the abortion haters(for any reason) how bout picking up a kid or 2 (many needy kids out there) & feed/care for them for awhile.. or just mentor some poor kids.. Put your money where your mouth is.. IMHO

Tigger_The_Tiger
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Tigger_The_Tiger 02/07/10 - 06:25 am
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It's sad that Nat the Cat

It's sad that Nat the Cat thinks that all 49,999,999 children that were murdered would have turned out to be homeless, addicts, derelicts, no-goods, and criminals.

overburdened_taxpayer
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overburdened_taxpayer 02/07/10 - 06:54 am
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There is no saving grace for

There is no saving grace for abortion but the libs sure are cutting their voter base with it.

seenitB4
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seenitB4 02/07/10 - 07:01 am
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One of the reasons the rep.

One of the reasons the rep. won in Mass. is because he favors abortion rights...Many more women would vote rep. if they GOT THAT!! Some are beginning to.

Tigger_The_Tiger
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Tigger_The_Tiger 02/07/10 - 07:12 am
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If I had to advocate

If I had to advocate murdering children for the sake of selfish people, then I'd just give up those votes.

seenitB4
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seenitB4 02/07/10 - 07:17 am
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Like I said Many won't get

Like I said Many won't get it.. You have your opinion & I have mine. We all have one,,, as they say..

southernguy08
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southernguy08 02/07/10 - 07:44 am
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Planned parenthood is pro
Unpublished

Planned parenthood is pro choice? What a joke. Where is the baby's choice? Women have choices besides abortion, like abstinence and contraception. Funny how those 2 words have become almost extinct. Funny also how abortion rights supporters scream about how they want people to "Keep your hands off my body." but also want taxpayer funding in the healthcare debate to include abortion. Go ahead with the names, I've heard them all before. It won't change the fact that ABORTION IS MURDER!!

seenitB4
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seenitB4 02/07/10 - 07:53 am
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Does the woman have a choice

Does the woman have a choice when she is raped & gets pregnant???Give me a break,,try living within a female body for awhile.. Sometimes she's raped by estranged husband & sometimes she's just plain SCARED to report anything because just maybe he has beaten the crap out of her TOO many times..SOOO many peole think we live in a pristine world,, alittle bit like lala land..IMHO (no I'm not talking about myself)

Tigger_The_Tiger
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Tigger_The_Tiger 02/07/10 - 08:17 am
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seenit......just because the

seenit......just because the mother was raped, why does her desire to not have the child override the child's right to live?

seenitB4
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seenitB4 02/07/10 - 08:25 am
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Tigger sometimes I agree with

Tigger sometimes I agree with you,,,but not on this.. A woman should have a right to decide what happens with her body..When she is raped her rights evaporate..Start with that premise & go from there...Like some folks have always said,"If the man got pregnant we wouldn't be having this conversation" because most men WOULDN'T let others decide what to do with THEIR body... that's all today on this for me..

Tigger_The_Tiger
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Tigger_The_Tiger 02/07/10 - 08:39 am
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But why doesn't the child

But why doesn't the child have the right to live? It's not a matter of telling a woman what she can and can't do with her body.....it's about telling her what she CAN'T do with SOMEONE ELSE'S body.

seenitB4
98777
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seenitB4 02/07/10 - 08:42 am
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Didn't I tell U I was through

Didn't I tell U I was through with this today?? Don't make a liar out of me.. I know some will never see another view point on this,, so there.

Tigger_The_Tiger
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Tigger_The_Tiger 02/07/10 - 08:45 am
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It's just a simple question.

It's just a simple question.

seenitB4
98777
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seenitB4 02/07/10 - 08:52 am
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No it's not a simple

No it's not a simple anything.. It is the MOST complex question & u dim well know it..

Tigger_The_Tiger
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Tigger_The_Tiger 02/07/10 - 09:00 am
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How can "why doesn't the

How can "why doesn't the child have the right to live?" be a complex question? Why do most "pro choice" people not even TRY to answer it?

seenitB4
98777
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seenitB4 02/07/10 - 09:05 am
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Because dodods won't ever be

Because dodods won't ever be satisfied with ANY answer.. Get pregnant & give birth after intercourse was forced on U & then come back & we can have a REAL conversation about this..

Riverman1
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Riverman1 02/07/10 - 10:03 am
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Some may have noticed I’ve

Some may have noticed I’ve had a little running battle with the editors over their use of the term “special-needs” which they used to describe abhorrent things such as the Iranian dictator. I waited for a few days thinking they would print an apology, but it hasn’t come. This editorial reminds me of the special-needs kids their parents chose not to abort. These parents, like Sarah Palin, are courageous to bring these children into the world. We, as a society, should have half the courage and decency of those parents.

AutumnLeaves
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AutumnLeaves 02/07/10 - 10:27 am
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I'm with the Federalist and

I'm with the Federalist and Tigger on this one.

CobaltGeorge
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CobaltGeorge 02/07/10 - 10:28 am
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TheFederalist Saturday, Feb.

TheFederalist Saturday, Feb. 6 11:58 PM I stand behind you and support your every word.

johnston.cliff
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johnston.cliff 02/07/10 - 10:35 am
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I agree with TheFederalist.

I agree with TheFederalist. Pro-choice never seems to include the baby's choice. The "p.c.ers" do away with it by calling the baby a fetus. I support the woman's "choice" of what to do with her body, up until her "choice" gets her pregnant. At that point, I feel the baby gets a say, also. As seenit says, rape is the exception to the rule. Inconvenience, the usual "choice" for abortion, is just supporting murder... often at taxpayer expense. Abortion is a multi-layered problem that has had way too much government support for way too many years. Social engineering at its worst.

Tigger_The_Tiger
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Tigger_The_Tiger 02/07/10 - 10:50 am
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What are "dodods?" And

What are "dodods?" And again......why does the child not have a right to live?

CobaltGeorge
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CobaltGeorge 02/07/10 - 11:02 am
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seenitB4, I am strongly

seenitB4, I am strongly against abortions. You make a point on the issue of rape which is the only debate that can be made on abortion, for/against. All other reasons for or against hold no water. I ask myself, If I was a woman and was forcibly raped by deranged inhuman male and I became pregnant...What would be in my mind and body every living minute of my miserable day....Do I want to bear a human that may be carrying the same gene's that has put you in this world and become another one.....or do I pray that his gene was not transmitted an it becomes a God creature........That is one heck of a "choice" to make. I really don't know what I would do!

Jane18
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Jane18 02/07/10 - 11:04 am
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Because I consider myself a

Because I consider myself a fair person, I would never put any woman down for abortion of a rape(of any nature). But, because I believe in GOD, I know that most children are a true blessing. I also know there are exceptions, Charles Manson, Jeffrey Dahmer. Ted Bundy, Hitler, are exceptions to that belief. We all make choices as to what kind of person we will be, but an aborted fetus(baby,person)never gets to make that CHOICE. Of that 49,999,999,(Nat the Cat 11:00p.m.Saturday) could there have been one that would discover a cure for cancer or aids, or some other disease? Could one have been a great leader? What so many people do not realize is that not only was that life taken, but all the children that these 49,999,999 would have had and on and on. The womb is supposed to be the SAFEST place, nowadays, it is a death chamber. There is much ignorance to what an abortion really is!

orgpsych
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orgpsych 02/07/10 - 11:04 am
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No, Tigger, it is not a

No, Tigger, it is not a simple question. If it were, then the sollution is simple. Why don't we just ask all involved what they want? I mean, how hard is it to ask a 3-month old fetus what it wants? Really?

Of course it's not that simple. That's why people, such as yourself, feel the burden to stand up and speak for them. But ARE you speaking for them? Or are you speaking for yourself and projecting that opinion and views onto the unborn, still-developing child-to-be.

The fact is this: Many children in this world are born into bad circumstances. They are unloved, abused, tortured, and even killed because the "parent" had a bad night or is high, ot doesn't know what to do any more, etc. These children were better off unborn than to force them to go through hell before they die. If you disagree then I suggest you follow Seenit's suggestion and take a couple on to care for.

It's easy to be ann armchair Christian and moralist and tell others how to live their lives because they obviously deserve to be in the crappy situation in which they find themselves living. How about walking your talk and doing something about it? Take care of some of these unwanted children and give them a better life.

If you are not willing to put your money, or your life, where your mouth is then your words ring hollow. Global warming doesn't need any help from additional empty rhetoric.

seenitB4
98777
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seenitB4 02/07/10 - 11:12 am
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George you are seeing the

George you are seeing the problem a woman faces with her choice.. Most women want to carry a baby created by the man she loves..(i say most) but keep in mind a woman can't defend herself like a man can. Some will give in just to keep from getting her head bashed in when under attack..this isn't the norm for most guys & I know that.. But I also know women will resort to back door abortions that will sometimes destroy their body & sometimes kill them. You have to walk in that woman's shoes to understand this .. There is no easy answer to this.

Tigger_The_Tiger
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Tigger_The_Tiger 02/07/10 - 11:29 am
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It IS a simple question if

It IS a simple question if you don't deny that a child is killed in every abortion. You seem to be avoiding acknowledging that fact. A woman's choice can NOT include killing another human being. No you can't ask a 3 month old what they want.....does that mean you can kill them too? Your logic is falling apart.

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