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Judge rejects Keeton lawsuit

ASU requirements deemed 'legitimate'

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Augusta State University's requirement that a graduate student read material about counseling gays and increase her exposure to that community after she objected to counseling homosexual clients was "academically legitimate," a federal court judge ruled Friday.

Jennifer Keeton
Jennifer Keeton

U.S. District Judge Randal Hall's decision enables university officials to expel Jennifer Keeton if she does not follow the remediation plan, which professors designed to "address issues of multicultural competence and develop understanding and empathy."

Hall said the case is not about "pitting Christianity against homosexuality," but rather the constitutionality of the school's requirement.

Professors asked Keeton to complete the remediation plan after she said she opposed homosexuality and would tell gay clients "their behavior is morally wrong and then help the client change that behavior," according to an affidavit filed in the case.

Keeton filed a lawsuit against the school in July, alleging the requirement was viewpoint discrimination and a violation of her First Amendment rights.

Hall ruled that Keeton "failed to clearly establish her high burden of persuasion of a 'substantial likelihood' of success of the merits of her case."

She provided no evidence that ASU faculty imposed the remediation plan because they personally disagreed with her views, Hall said.

In an Aug. 11 hearing, ASU professors testified that the plan was not a punishment for voicing her beliefs, but a tool to teach Keeton how to counsel clients while not imposing her views.

"All three professors testified that they never told (Keeton) that she was required to change her religious beliefs in order to stay in the counseling program," Hall wrote.

He noted that Keeton did not testify at the hearing nor present any witnesses in support of her motion.

Hall said Keeton's unwillingness to adhere to the school's viewpoint-neutral code of ethics set by the American Counseling Association constitutes a refusal to complete the curriculum.

Without completing the remediation plan, Keeton was unable to begin classes at the college as part of a practicum. A filing by her lawyers earlier this week said she had begun the work at Augusta Christian School.

Hall ruled the plan was simply a way to teach Keeton how to counsel all demographics of clients.

"It was not (Keeton's) personal beliefs that were their concern, but rather only her inability to separate her personal beliefs in the judgment-free zone of a professional counseling situation," Hall said.

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freeradical
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freeradical 08/21/10 - 08:09 pm
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Palmetto, I can tell you that

Palmetto,

I can tell you that "I would advocate" that any judge not have past

personal involvment in either side concerned . And if so an honest one

should do the honorable thing.

But you know judges are not what they used to be.

I take it you are alright with past personal involment ?

palmetto1007
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palmetto1007 08/21/10 - 08:11 pm
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Well, maybe zenmonster would

Well, maybe zenmonster would make thing more clear for us idiots who don't know it all like those who will twist anything to fit into their agenda.

palmetto1007
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palmetto1007 08/21/10 - 08:18 pm
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In my profession, I have past

In my profession, I have past personal involvement with many things I encounter. And, a true professional will acknowledge at least to himself a potential bias and be wary of it. And, I'm guessing that many other true professionals will actually give "extra points" to a side or position for which bias is NOT an issue to control for any unconscious bias. And, I'm not so sure that is as wrong as giving the "extra points" to the other side....but I have to admit, I've done it. Professional behavior is professional behavior. I don't think you have reason to question the judge's professionalism....do you??

zenmonster
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zenmonster 08/21/10 - 08:34 pm
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freeradical, can you please

freeradical, can you please give a verse where God makes the distinction between sin and dietary law. I believe breaking one of God's laws would be a sin, if nothing else, then simply the sin of disobedience, but I am always looking for new things to read in the Bible. Also, I don't think the rule about women not speaking in church has anything to do with the Jewish cleanliness laws. I think that is a behavior rule, and one that is freeliy ignored by most women I see in Church.

palmetto, I'm sorry if it seems like I am twisting the Scriptures. I site the chapters so you can verify my claims, and I cut and pasted them directly from an online Bible to make sure I didn't change anything. I'm also sorry if I was unlcear. What exactly did you not understand? Of course, we disagree on these things, but that is why I ask God to help me understand as best I can. The fact that we disagree on the interpretation is exactly why neither of us should be able to tell the other how to believe or behave.

freeradical
1602
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freeradical 08/21/10 - 08:45 pm
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Zenmonster, He did so in the

Zenmonster,

He did so in the Word made flesh to the whole world Jesus Christ.

Jesus never once equated Jewish dietary laws with sin.

freeradical
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freeradical 08/21/10 - 09:17 pm
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Palmetto, I am not nearly as

Palmetto,

I am not nearly as concerned with what a judge considers to be a

problem for himself within the realm of his little world as you are.

I do not believe it is simply a matter of what a judge along with his ego

decides has a "potential for bias" in his self-important world.

As public servants I believe the greater obligation is for them look

beyond themselves their ego and their self-important world and see

what has any potential to be veiwed as a basis for bias by the people

they serve, and the litigants involved who do not want their cases

jeopardized, and do not deserve to have them jeopardized.

A determination of what has the appearence of bias with the judge and

his ego being the only two parties considered does not serve

the public well.

And I do consider such self-concerned ego based indulgences to be very

unprofessional.

InChristLove
22493
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InChristLove 08/21/10 - 09:55 pm
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Sin is Sin. Dietary laws

Sin is Sin. Dietary laws were for the Jews to set them apart for everyone else and to keep them unified as God's chosen people.

Suzy Q
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Suzy Q 08/21/10 - 11:10 pm
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While I don't dispute

While I don't dispute Keeton's right to sue, on a personal note, I'd like to thank her for forcing ASU to spend money on this frivolous garbage. Those expenses will now be passed on to those of us already struggling to keep our kids in college.

Thanks. Heaps. Really.

psychologyseniorusc
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psychologyseniorusc 08/22/10 - 12:59 am
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good for justice, if i had

good for justice, if i had not taken a course in abortion/premature bitth, i could not have gotten an RN. she should, as a human being, especially if she is looking at a career in the field, get over it. maybe she should major in 'hatred'

Midnight Raver
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Midnight Raver 08/22/10 - 02:20 am
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I apologize if this has been

I apologize if this has been mentioned before. But I see her problem like this:

You're a counselor and you believe that being gay is reprehensibly wrong. If the counselor carries this professional bias and someone comes in saying:

1. I'm depressed and want to kill myself. And the person is also gay. She's going to convince the person that they're depressed because they're gay and treat their homosexuality to give him peace.

2. Another person has social anxiety and happens to be gay. She's going to tell them that they have social anxiety because they're gay.

She's going to try to rehabilitate their problems by correcting their homosexuality.

This doesn't sound too far-fetched or wrong...but let's say this is person feels that being christian is reprehensibly wrong and is jewish. Then we ALL would be up in arms. How dare you think my religion is responsible for my problems!?!

If life gives you a hammer everything looks like a nail. A counselor has to be fluid in their diagnosis, many problems are an amalgamate of different issues. She cannot be treating everyone that is gay the same way...

freeradical
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freeradical 08/22/10 - 07:11 am
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Keeton will now learn that

Keeton will now learn that when the homosexual becomes depressed

that they are discriminated againest at virtually all blood donation

centers based upon pure medical science, it is the

counselors task to "positively affirm" the depressing discrimination by

pointing out that thousands will be spared the deplorable per capita

disease rates, and premature death rates inherent in the choice

of sodomy.

That should cheer and affirm them.

Marlene
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Marlene 08/22/10 - 10:04 am
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Freeradical -- The reason gay

Freeradical -- The reason gay men (and MSMs) are still banned is *purely* political!!

NO woman is banned from having sex with a man, are they, my dear... even though heterosexuals of color are *still* one of the highest categories of infection!

There are gay men who've been in lifelong monogamous relationships, yet they're still banned from donating!

I myself have a lifetime ban due to the fact I had an aunt supposedly die of CJD, and was never officially diagnosed via brain biopsy. There's absolutely NO evidence CJD is a blood borne disease, yet the cowards at the Red Cross and blood banks imposed a blanket ban.

As to your supposed claim of premature death rates, that was another fraudulent "study" which has NO legitimacy except with the bigots and the Christofascists, and theocrats.

catv1
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catv1 08/22/10 - 12:37 pm
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“I think a lot of it is a

“I think a lot of it is a forming of attitudes. I think, primarily, they know our name but they don't know much about us.”

catv1
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catv1 08/22/10 - 12:40 pm
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Those of us who know the

Those of us who know the university feel pretty good about it. But I think that it's not known. This is not the flagship of the state.

Aura68
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Aura68 08/22/10 - 02:02 pm
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I can't understand all these

I can't understand all these people that think she was singled out for remediation. I'm quite certain she wasn't the first or the last student that was assigned a remediation plan. It is clearly outlined in the student handbook that it can be administered to any student in the program at anytime. She wasn't asked to do something that no other student was ever asked to do. To believe that is foolish. She's the one that refused to do it and decided to waste tax dollars in the process.

tmimbs
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tmimbs 08/22/10 - 02:44 pm
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Zenmonster, regarding your

Zenmonster, regarding your post from 7:45 last evening, you sound as if you may truly want to understand the Scripture more than you want to promote an agenda. If that's the case, continue to pray in sincerity and the Lord will give you understanding.

I am a poor substitute, but the Lord often uses poor substitutes to point the way to Him. Anyway, I will give it a try to try and help clarify the seeming contradictions or changes you pointed out in your post. First, we probably should all start with 1 Timothy 2:15 - "Study to show thyself approved unto God, as a workman who doesn't need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." Please note that it says
"study" the word and not "read" the word. A simple reading of the word, without proper context and study, may make the passage appear as if it is something it is really not.

For example, the overall context of 1 Corinthians is that the Apostle Paul in writing a letter to the church he planted at Corinth to chastise them for thier erroneus and arrogant behavior and for allowing the characteristics of the hedonistic city they were located in to creep into the church. It was reported that the Temple of Ahprodite there, for example, offered 1000 prostitutes in the name of "religion" for the sailors who passed through and that many of those were transvestites as well. The passage you cited from Chapter 14 (its actually in Ch. 11:14) regarding long hair for men and head coverings for women was part of addressing this issue. The Greek word for "long hair "in the original manuscripts is "KAMEO", which literally meant to "wear hair like that of a woman" or imitating a woman's hair. When the KJV was translated, long hair was an accepted distinction between men and women at that time. As you may know, Jesus was a Nazarite man and they were not allowed to cut their hair, which Paul was fully aware of when he wrote this. So, Paul's warning to men here was most likely directed to men to literally "not wear their hair in an effeminite or ornate hairstyle" so as not to mimick the transvestite prostitutes at the temple there in Corinth so that there would be no confusion in the city between the church and the Temple of Aphrodite.

As for the women, it was not uncommon for the prostitutes in the temple to shave their heads and don blond wigs as signal they were available, which is why Paul referenced the shame of a woman's shaved head. Verse 15 (b) actually tells what the proper "covering" was for a woman in the church, when it says "for her hair is given to her as a glorious covering" (NASB). So, you see, we err when we interpret that to mean that Paul says all women must wear artifical covering on their heads. On the other hand, if the woman's hair was blond, she may very well have chosen to cover it to make sure a disticntion was drawn between herself and the temple prostitutes. The two main points Paul was making was that the clear distinction between men and women must be maintained and that there be no confusion between what the church stood for and what the Temple of Aphrodite stood for.

Also, please notice in 11:5 that Paul said that a woman must have her head covered (with her own hair) when she is "praying or prophesying". So, you may ask, how can Paul approve of a woman "praying or prophesying" in Chapter 11 and then tell them to be "silent in church" in Chapter 14? Again, we should study the correct wording and the correct context. In 14:28, Paul says that if there were no interpretor for a special word from God given to one in an unknown language, then he was to keep "silent". In verse 30, Paul says that if two or more are led to preach in a service and one announced that he had received a new revelation from God, then the other was to keep "silent". In both cases, the Greek word for silent is "SIAGO", which basically means to not speak out of turn. The same word is used in verse 34 when Paul instructs women to be "silent" in church. Among the many problems the church in Corinth was having at the time was that certain members were rebelling against the "establishment", just for the sake of disruption and confusion. Paul had clearly established in Chapter 11 that women were expected to pray and speak in church. More than likely, then, he was referring to those specific women who were being disruptive by speaking out of turn in 14:34.

These are just soem examples of the need for context and study. Hope this helps.

Marlene
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Marlene 08/22/10 - 07:41 pm
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tmimbs -- Let's remember that

tmimbs -- Let's remember that Paul wrote in ancient Greek. It had NO words for "homosexual", nor "transvestite", which were invented in the 1800s.

Let's also take into consideration the historical, sociological, and linguistic context of the text. You can never be able to truly and accurately translate words which have NO equivalent in Latin, let alone Old English and Modern English! This means the people had to *guess* as to what the words meant!

My interpretation of "malakos" is soft male, which was anathema to the Romans and Greeks at the time, due to the social mores at the time.

Society made it perfectly fine for a man on top to have sex with another man, but the one on the bottom was derided, because they took the inferior, or female position. It was also why when the Roman and Greek soldiers were victorious, they ritualistically raped the defeated soldiers in order to further humiliate them.

As to the word "arsenokoitai", there are many translations of the word, but some have interpreted it to mean "homosexual prostitute". There's absolutely NO condemnation of lesbian and gay couples in the manner we know them today.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibc1.htm

If you're going to bring up the Pauline edicts, my dear... when are you going to post the bans on women wearing men's clothing and ruling over men in church? When are you going to demand this be put up on the ballot for the people to vote?

unreligious
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unreligious 08/22/10 - 08:08 pm
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While I realize it's a day

While I realize it's a day later and they probably will not see it tmimbs comment needs a response. First of all I'm sorry but you are not reading the bible as written in the original manuscripts. The bible has been translated and books have been dropped and added over time. As early as the third century Christian scholars were lamenting the fact that the Septuagint was no longer an exact replica of the Egyptian Old Testament. Further more biblical scholars recognize three versions of the old testament,as evidenced by the dead sea scrolls. The is not the place to try to get into all the changes that have been done to the bible for political reasons over time, as such a discussion would be longer than the article and all the posts put together. There are many books you can read to enlighten yourself as to the inaccuracies of current bibles. Your limited view of history is further born out in your statement about Nero and the fall of the Roman empire. Nero died in 68 A.D. While it is not really clear that Rome fell and adapted would probably be a better word, 476 AD is used for the end of the western empire for convenience by historians. That's four-hundred years after Nero, hardly soon afterwards. It is also well to remember that this date is is 150 years after Constantine converted Rome to Christianity, 312 AD. To say Rome "fell" because of homosexuality is laughable, it would be more valid to say Rome "fell" because of Christianity. Although even that is not fully reflecting the reasons for the decline. If you are going to make posts at least try for some objectivity and use historical facts, not fiction.

InChristLove
22493
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InChristLove 08/22/10 - 08:48 pm
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I believe tmimbs comment was

I believe tmimbs comment was an explanation to some misquided interpretation of scripture about length of hair for men and women, and the idea that women should cover their head, not about whether there are some lost books or altered version of the Bible. The so called "lost books" are not included in the Holy Word of God because they can not be authenticated as being inspired by the Holy Spirit. Whether these books should be included or not is to each a personal opinion and in no way takes away from what the scripture says concerning hair length or the covering there of. Tmimbs, thanks for the explanation. I started to respond the other night but too many interruptions and the need for sleep won out.

catv1
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catv1 08/22/10 - 08:59 pm
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No matter how hopeless things

No matter how hopeless things seem to be, hope is always justified because God has the last word

tmimbs
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tmimbs 08/22/10 - 09:09 pm
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Marlene, I cited a Greek word

Marlene, I cited a Greek word for "homosexual", so please don't out words in my mouth. You may want to research the secular and non-Christian historian Josephus if you don't believe there were both male and female prostitutes in that temple. In spite of the agenda driven propaganda website you cited, Paul was clearly warning the church to keep clear distinctions between male and female. If you couple that with Jesus' own proclamation that God made male and female and that they should leave their fathers and mothers and cleave unto one another and become one flesh, yet He made no such proclamation for same sex couples, then your insinuation that God would accept gay marriage won't fly.

Also, I don't think I would cite Roman and Greek society's acceptance of gay sex as a moral model for society.

z

tmimbs
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tmimbs 08/22/10 - 09:52 pm
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Marlene, sorry, typing on

Marlene, sorry, typing on Blackberry. Open line should have said I did NOT cite a Greek word for homosexuality.

Unreligious, I said "not terribly long after Nero." I agree that that Rome itself did not fall, just as Britain did not fall, but bith of their "empires" disolved over century plus long periods.

I would urge you to find the Josh McDowell video "The Reliability of Scripture" and compare the accuracy evidence of the Bible versus any other historical literature.

What is laughable is your statement that Constantine "converted" Rome to Christianity. This tells me, sadly, that you have no concept of what Christianity really is. Christ saves individuals, not countries. BTW, just curious, where exactly do you think you came from?

InChristsLove, thank you for your support. I admire your witness. I just happen to
be teaching a series right now on 1 Corinthians.

impossible
131
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impossible 08/23/10 - 12:16 am
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Follower: this is the post I
Unpublished

Follower: this is the post I was referring to: impossibleSaturday, Aug. 21 11:58 AMeditLogically read, though logic is offensive to liberals, the first comment in this post by Momma mia says it all. If you take her comment and opinion to their logical conclusion: No one is fit to counsel anyone, because everyone has "personal beliefs" and no one leaves them at home when they go out into the world.
The ASU policy is in effect, not only discriminatory, but the academic application of, "Don't ask; don't tell."
Unless every student is required to take remediation steps (consciousness raising; sensitivity training; values clarification), no one should have to do so.
Shame on Judge Hall for dissing the Constitutional right of Freedom of Speech.
MOMSTER: I have read your posts, and you have yet to respond to the logical argument in this post that in recognition of the obvious fact that each person has a belief system or certain beliefs, then remediation must be required of all or of none. Keeton expressed her beliefs and was therefore singled out.

opinions are like...
0
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opinions are like... 08/23/10 - 09:57 am
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I am an atheist and I am

I am an atheist and I am always nice and genuinely helpful to Christians, even though I find them to generally be hate mongering hillbillies who are usually very destructive. I try not to judge them based on the worst of their members and I try to remember that if I can be a good influence and follow the golden rule then maybe one day they will start following my lead.

Marlene
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Marlene 08/23/10 - 02:54 pm
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tmi -- First, I do know there

tmi -- First, I do know there were male and female prostitutes in the fertility temples in Corinth. Second, what Paul was condemning was the fact that this sex wasn't leading up to procreation as well.

I put the Pauline edits in the same category as any other christian minister like Falwell, Robertson, Kennedy, et al. He was a product of his time, and trying to justify his opinions in the 21st century is like trying to use a scientist's opinions of the 1900s attempting to claim that planes will never fly supersonic, and space travel is the stuff of fantasy.

GayChristian
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GayChristian 08/26/10 - 02:08 am
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So back to the original

So back to the original topic.

Here is why if she can't separate personal beliefs(this is about beliefs not religion) She can not legally graduate from a government funded school.

A 15 year old male or female that tells her they have never felt any attraction to the opposite sex of any kind, but have strong feelings to people of the same sex.

15 years old has no legal right and depending on the state 16 or 17 may not either. The councilor can tell the parents of the child, who wasn't even ready to talk to the parents, and force the kid to attended camps like Exodus international and Love in action, which have been so detrimental to their patients the leaders have actually started their own counseling to deal with the harm they have done to people and rebuke the programs they started. The teen can not object to being sent away by their parents without a lawsuit demanding legal emancipation. So one that has no idea whats going and just needs someone to talk to has no betrayed their trust even more and forced the kid closer to suicide or strong psychological damage. That is why she was denied. I have been dealing with hatred from my family trying to be forced into things, going along with it to appease my family and being kicked out not because I was sexually active with people but because every time they would throw their "Christian" logic at me I could use the same books and knowledge to dispute them and they didn't know what to do. I was to influential to other spectators and ruled as a threat instead of someone that could be "fixed". That is how easily they give up on someone, some one that is fully willing to listen to sound logic and they can't give sound logic. If it was a Christian private school sure she can be there and do what they ask, but if she cant separate her personal beliefs enough to say I can't help you go see someone else that can then; she can never be a professional in a public system or even a professional one(unless she puts a notice about her beliefs on all her advertisements). Me and friends of mine have had doctors and psychiatrist tell our parents when we where underage about things we came to them about and since we where minors it was legal. At least that's what lawyers told us.

If she can't evaluate a public school child and adhere to the rules of a State school system then she has no right to be certified to work there. Many Christians before her have graduated and have the same degree from the same school so what makes her deserve special treatment?

Lupaz
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Lupaz 08/28/10 - 06:13 am
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isn't it obvious that these

isn't it obvious that these professors are possibly gay themselves and trying to force down their views on Jennifer. they could as well tell her to pick a same sex lover so she could be more empathetic towards they gay community.maybe gay people who need counselling should go to gay counsellors if this is what unreasonable college officials require from all of us who dont share their homosexual views

Marlene
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Marlene 09/01/10 - 05:21 pm
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Lupaz, do you *really*

Lupaz, do you *really* believe that? A legitimate professor wouldn't force a student into that scenario, even if they *were* LGBT!!

stage9
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stage9 06/29/12 - 12:35 pm
1
0
Hilarious! Judges who moonlight as Philosophers!

"It was not (Keeton's) personal beliefs that were their concern, but rather only her inability to separate her personal beliefs in the judgment-free zone of a professional counseling situation," Hall said.

What a CROCK! There is NO SUCH THING as a "separation of personal beliefs" -- except in the realm of liberal ethics! (which is itself an oxymoron!)

So should she be compelled to “separate her personal beliefs in the judgment-free zone of a professional counseling situation” if a future client wants to off himself or someone else? Should she, or should she NOT have an “absolutist philosophical” belief about such things?

If she informs her client that he has a lot to live for, she has just rendered an OPINION and has crossed over into the realm of "personal beliefs"! However, if she informs him that HE HAS TO MAKE THE DECISION whether to off himself or another on his own, and he follows through with it, she has become an accessory! She could have prevented a loss of life but chose instead NOT to invoke "her personal beliefs in the judgment-free zone of a professional counseling situation”.

It seems to me, in this day and age of convoluted reason and twisted morals, that fools get to impose the full measure of their foolishness while the morally sane and intellectually honest are brushed aside.

I would tell Augusta State to suck it and then re-enroll in a REAL university whose principles encourage the burgeoning of free thought unfettered by imbecilic ethics. Don’t harlot yourself with these morally confused reprobates any longer.

“She was expelled.” GOOD! They did you a favor! They will no longer be able to corrupt and twist you into a mindless pretzel any longer. Too many young people are coming out of these incubators of imbecility with minds of mush…twisted and distorted by liberal head cases. Be thankful. You’ve been rid of their disease. You’re CURED! You’re FREE! Now go forth and think for yourself...

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