AIKEN -- Christians spilled into The Alley and lobby of the Aiken municipal building Monday night after showing up in force to support keeping prayer public in government meetings.
The crowd was estimated between 500 and 700 people, with passers-by drifting among the masses in The Alley to see what was happening.
Lakeside Baptist Church, of Bath, played host to the rally. The city had received an eight-page letter in June from the Freedom From Religion Foundation, a nonprofit group based in Madison, Wis., labeling the city's prayer unnecessary at a secular meeting
The group said Aiken City Council also violates a 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruling against government-sponsored prayers that are sectarian, denominational and invoke a particular faith or deity.
Oran Smith, of the South Carolina affiliate of Focus on the Family, said the rally wasn't about the right to say "Jesus at every meeting," but making sure that state law was followed and that those wanting to pray didn't lose their opportunity.
During a meeting in July, Mayor Fred Cavanaugh opted for a moment of silence until the city's legal staff investigated the claim. Council members voted unanimously to keep prayers before meetings.
Cheri Reese, a member of the Aiken Church of Christ, said she was glad the congregation of Lakeside Baptist stepped up to the plate to get people interested in the issue.
"I signed a petition, but that takes no effort at all. It's shown me that we really need to get more involved. It'll make us all better Christians," she said.
Mary and Michael Kaplan, of Aiken, were among the residents who've followed the issue in the news, but attended the rally by chance during an evening walk downtown. The couple said the federal and even state law was constructed so it didn't purposefully prefer one religion, and it should be interpreted as such.
"If people start going beyond what the law states, that's where it becomes easy to continue to skew that line," Michael Kaplan said.
Why do Christians think their religion trumps not only our Constitution but everyone else's faith or lack of it? No one is denying you the right to worship. However you are denying others the right to worship or not worship by saying Christian prayers only at a GOVERNMENT level meeting. This isn't tent revival it's GOVERNMENT meeting!
Right, this is a secular meeting. This is government and it's not about faith, whichever faith is held. No one is saying the council members can't pray privately, but expecting it and spending time and tax money on a group "show" that hardly qualifies as a prayer is ridiculous. Show some humility and worship privately. Acting high and mighty just makes it seem more fake.
Maybe prayers at government meetings could be offered by leaders of different faiths? That's just a thought. Those who don't believe in God or religion are hypocrites. They don't care if In God We Trust is on the money they spend everyday, but have a problem with acknowledging it before government meetings.
KingJames,
I honestly don't care about prayer. What I care about is Christians or anyone of any faith who think their God is somehow better then everyone else's it has to be their way...their prayers...or the highway. That's my problem. I don't want to stop anyone from worshipping whomever or whatever they so choose. Worship your toaster as God for all I care. Just quit trying to act likes yours is the only religion, that other faiths don't matter, and that government must say a CHRISTIAN prayer or else. Really the government is not supposed to choose or establish one religion over another and that's exactly what's going on here. Some people need a Civics lesson pronto!
Why should I worship privately when I can hear the new Young Jeezy album "bumpin" 4 blocks away?
I think it’s kind of scary
You get forgiveness from your fairy,
And it really makes no difference what you do.
When you rape and rob and pillage
Doing murder in your village,
And it really makes no difference what you do.
You can get the padre’s blessing
While on your knees you are confessing,
And it really makes no difference what you do.
In your hand your Bible’s thumping
But in your mind someone you’re humping,
And it really makes no difference what you do.
2
Allah wants you for a martyr
You must blow up for a starter,
And it really makes no difference what you do.
The virgins are a waiting
You get all of them for hating
And it really makes no difference what you do.
When you explode in bloody wonder
Blasts your neighborhood asunder
And it really makes no difference what you do.
You can blow up all the others
They’re your sisters and your brothers,
And it really makes no difference what you do.
3
Then you’ll reap your earned reward
You’ve been faithful to your Lord,
And it really makes no difference what you do.
Woman, slave, or homosexual
Your pleas will be so ineffectual,
And it really makes no difference what you do.
That fiery Hell is even hotter
Than the wand of Harry Potter,
And it really makes no difference what you do.
It’s all about which [filtered word] you kiss
Take your pick eternal bliss,
Please just tell me which is right and which to choose.
As I understand it, any minister of any faith can put their name on the list to have their turn at saying a prayer. No one is saying it can only be the preferred faith, what ever that is... So what happened to the black community? Not trying to make it a race issue, I'm just wondering why there was so little (if any) support at this event? Was there a reason for not showing up to show support for prayer with the rest?
JusticeForEva, "Maybe prayers at government meetings could be offered by leaders of different faiths? That's just a thought. " Now, does that sound like I'm advocating the prayers be led by any particular faith? If you want non-Christian prayers, then find some non-Christian religious leaders who are willing to take time to sign up like Hepkikyo said. I will agree with you if a leader from a particular religion signs up and is told they can't offer the prayer because of their faith. Now, that would be wrong. The separation of church and state isn't always as clearly defined as we would like, as an invocation and/or benediction are usually part government ceremonies (I know they were part of all the military ceremonies I attended). To be inclusive, Aiken should publicize that non-Christian religious leaders are welcome to offer prayers. Atheists shouldn't mind because this is all nonsense to them.
Three questions:
1. WHY do Christians want to encourage public prayer, especially during governmental meetings, in public schools, etc. when their own scriptures state, as a direct quote from Jesus, in
Matthew 6:5:?
“And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. 7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words."
Are they embracing "hypocrisy" or declaring themselves as "heathen"??
2. Why do Christians not follow Christ’s “second greatest commandment in Mark 12:31? “The second is this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' " and again in Luke6: 31 “And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.” AND Matthew 7:12 “Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them.”
Do they want (and welcome) non-believers, Wiccans, Muslims, or Pastifarians to denigrate and disparage Christian beliefs, life style choices and ethics as Christians do to others??
3. Why do Christians believe that being “in the majority” gives them the right to integrate their religion into our government and deny equal rights to those in the minority when T Jefferson wrote: "The majority, oppressing an individual, is guilty of a crime, abuses its strength, and by acting on the law of the strongest breaks up the foundations of society." --Thomas Jefferson 1816.
Are they trying to bring down our republic??
I would really like to know the answers and, since Christians’ so often claim to have them all, maybe I’ll get one or two?
Ledotter - I gaurantee the thumpers will give you a nice spin job indicating how wrong you are and how right christianity , the bible , religion , etc... IS !
Yeah it's why I said my peace and I'm not really saying much anymore. No point.
Pastor Tad Marshall of Lakeside Baptist Church should know better! In colonial America, Baptists were a minority sect and in Virginia children were taken from Baptist parents to be properly raised Anglican (the state religion). So when the Danbury Baptists wrote to Thomas Jefferson for a clarification of the First Amendment, they were glad the reply said it meant "separation of church and state" so even if Jesus hadn't instructed to pray in private, one would think they would urge everyone to do so. (Jesus also said to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's.) The Golden Rule would instruct that Christians would treat those who believe something different from their beliefs as they would want to be treated.
Julia Sellers in typical AC fashion said, "The city had received an eight-page letter in June from the Freedom From Religion Foundation, a nonprofit group based in Madison, Wis., labeling the city's prayer unnecessary at a secular meeting." Yes that is true but the letter also outlined the FACT that several council meetings contained prayer with reference to one particular deity with transcripts to prove it and that the council had been asked repeatedly to stop this practice that is in violation of South Carolina law.
I must chuckle at the gluttonous in the "prayer" crowd. Do these people have any couth or are they, like most Christians, just impervious to their hypocrisy?
kingjames - I would like for this area to embrace your beautiful idea, but I just don't see it happening. The first time a Muslim prayed using evoking "Allah" instead of "Jesus" all oowazoo would break loose with many of these Christians, have felt their wrath at such an "outrage" first hand. If they have to have their public prayer (even though Jesus said not to), then they can get together before the meeting.
Nobody even attempted to answer my question. Nice. I love the way your opinion is right and mine is wrong, f that, your wrong and im right, no im wrong and your right, no your left and im wrong, left no right, what? What? I said left, right? No you said right. Right. Ok, glad we settled that. What a joke.
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