Gay rights group supports ASU in court

Organization files friend of the court brief in Keeton case

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A National gay rights organization has expressed its opposition to Augusta State University counseling student Jennifer Keeton, who is suing the school because they insisted she participate in a remediation plan to increase her exposure homosexuals.

In a friend-of-the-court brief filed in the United States Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit in Atlanta on behalf of the group Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays and Georgia Safe Schools Coalition, representatives from Lambda Legal expressed concern about Keeton’s expressed intent to “engage in discriminatory and harmful professional practices as a school counselor,” according to a press release.

 

The group emphasized the role counselors play in preventing harm to gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender young people and said it was the duty of counselors to “promote the well-being of all students, especially those youth who are being bullied.

 

Keeton, 24, sued ASU in July because she claimed her first-amendment rights were violated.

Comments (26) Add comment
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Farmboy
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Farmboy 12/01/10 - 02:08 pm
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ASU is not asking her to

ASU is not asking her to accept homosexuality. They are asking her to do the work required to graduate from the program. If she is not smart enough to understand that, then I think they have an even bigger problem on their hands.

crackerjack
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crackerjack 12/01/10 - 03:39 pm
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Well isn't that appropriate,

Well isn't that appropriate, since the KKK was trying to back her? Good Grief!

Taylor B
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Taylor B 12/01/10 - 04:26 pm
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Ugh... This won't go away,

Ugh... This won't go away, will it?

Fiat_Lux
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Fiat_Lux 12/01/10 - 04:27 pm
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Let 'em gripe. Let 'em rant

Let 'em gripe. Let 'em rant and rave and foam at the mouth if they want to. It won't make any difference one way or the other. The people who agree with them will feel affirmed and the people who think they're deluded perverts will think it even more firmly.

Most of us just wish people could live in peace, believing what they like and keeping away from people they find offensive. The problem is that the basic standards for public decency and polite behavior have all but disappeared, so collisions are virtually unavoidable.

Kindness and courtesy go a very long way, that and keeping your private life to yourself no matter what your preferences.

Pizzaguy
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Pizzaguy 12/01/10 - 04:58 pm
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Agreed Fiat_Lux, I guess we

Agreed Fiat_Lux, I guess we should all go against what we believe to be right and go with the "loud crowd". Liberalism is going to destroy society.

scoopdedoop64
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scoopdedoop64 12/02/10 - 12:14 am
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Here we go again! It's not

Here we go again! It's not surprising that the groups that condone such behavior would seek to oppose Keeton's suit. These homosexuals are proud of who they are and have no remorse for their perverted ways. They need proper counseling that would help them change their lifestyle. I pray for them and love them in the Lord and hope that many will be set free from such a destructive lifestyle. Too bad the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" cannot be applied to all of society. I would prefer not to know but once they came out of the closet there was not much people can do.

dougk
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dougk 12/02/10 - 12:40 am
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Hold on a for just awhile
Unpublished

Hold on a for just awhile Scoop. They'll be even able to "tell" and proclaim their sexuality in the military...
Can you imagine such perversion among the U.S. most brave and honorable??

Jackson
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Jackson 12/02/10 - 02:33 am
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Yea I'll bet you pray for

Yea I'll bet you pray for them Scoop.
Doug how do you know a homosexual didn't save a straight man or woman's life in the latest wars?
Homophobic ignorance. How dare you!

Suzy Q
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Suzy Q 12/02/10 - 03:07 am
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@dougk ...."Can you imagine

@dougk ...."Can you imagine such perversion among the U.S. most brave and honorable??"

Why do you spend your time imagining any sort of perversion? Weird.....

dougk
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dougk 12/02/10 - 07:44 am
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Jackson and Suzy Q....I'm
Unpublished

Jackson and Suzy Q....I'm sorry the sarcasm intended in my comment was not interpreted that way by the two of you ...I'm even more sorry if Scoop missed it.

ReallyNow
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ReallyNow 12/02/10 - 08:07 am
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Naturally if she is against

Naturally if she is against gays they are going to side with the opposing team. Just leave the girl alone. She had the guts to stand up for what she believes. Gays believe in homosexuality....She believes in Christ!

Jackson
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Jackson 12/02/10 - 08:41 am
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Sorry doug. Now I get it.

Sorry doug. Now I get it.

scoopdedoop64
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scoopdedoop64 12/02/10 - 12:05 pm
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Your comment was not wasted

Your comment was not wasted Dougk; I got it right away. LOL Once you know a person's general view on things from their previous comments its easier to pick up where they are coming from. Personally I wish they would keep the same policy in the military but they seem bound to change it one day. If they do then I think they should put all the gay men in one unit. That way after the first platoon demolishes the enemies camp the gay one can come in and redecorate with some new curtains. LOL Just kidding guys.

Cadence
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Cadence 12/02/10 - 12:11 pm
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Isn't this old news?

Isn't this old news?

Aroundtown
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Aroundtown 12/02/10 - 12:33 pm
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This isn't about anyone's'

This isn't about anyone's' rights to their sexuality, it's about this girl's right to NOT have to say she agrees morally with something that she doesn't. I see both sides' views, but it still stands as a dilemma.

Was the "Homosexual" aspect of the curriculum clearly written in the Standards for the degree? If not, she should be able to graduate (and they should add a notation to the course/degree description). If so, she should have to take the course.
But, Come on! What educated person is getting a degree in school counseling and doesn't realize that homosexuality may become a point of interest? (I am increasingly amazed at the impact that it has has on our Middle & High Schools...all about sex... (Private lives...keep it that way!)...or is she just hoping to work at an Elementary school??...or maybe she wants to work ONLY in private Christian Education...That's Fine too. I went to school and worked in the private education field...you don't HAVE to discuss homosexuality, but it would behoove anyone to be educated on the mind-set and/or possible identity problems that may come from an individual's embracing of homosexuality. I am a Christian, I DON'T believe that homosexuality is condoned by the Scriptures; but am I going to HATE someone that thinks in a way OTHER than I do? No way!

If a Muslim student was in the same situation, they could claim religious immunity from having to agree with homosexuality...at least I believe that they would have a case.
Why not a Christian?

This one just needs to be settled, she gets her degree, ASU states CLEARLY what they expect, and everyone goes to Lunch!

scoopdedoop64
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scoopdedoop64 12/02/10 - 12:50 pm
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aroundtown, I have heard a

aroundtown, I have heard a lot of comments but yours makes the most sense and is well stated. No one should be mistreated because of their views and convictions. I tease a lot but I do believe that all people should be treated with respect.

ameliaf
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ameliaf 12/02/10 - 01:18 pm
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Well, good, aroundtown.

Well, good, aroundtown. There is a place for Jennifer to work in Christian schools or counseling with Christians who believe as she does.

Very good point, too, Light. Behind that face of civility that good manners requires of all of us is a belief that each person is a child of God, worthy of respect, and an awareness that we are not called to judge the person, but to love. We may have opinions, but we face those with a differing opinion with respect, not belligerence.

Those were my mother's lessons. I admit I sometimes don't live up to them. Thanks for the reminder.

mable8
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mable8 12/02/10 - 05:43 pm
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Ms Keeton needs to transfer

Ms Keeton needs to transfer to a religious school and practice her counselling only in parochial school systems. Otherwise, her counseling will be a blatant discriminatory practice that willl cause the individual serious psychological harm. Ms Keeton may also need to reconsider what profession she wants to be in---her actions should remove her from obtaining a professional license as a counselor.

scoopdedoop64
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scoopdedoop64 12/02/10 - 07:03 pm
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mable8, my question would be

mable8, my question would be who determines what is considered proper "professional guidelines"? For example: what if the school decided that Adult and children should be allowed to have sex together and that students must set aside any convictions they have in order to obtain a professional licence? You see when you start deciding what morals you are going to make your students give up in order to conform then eventually everything becomes ok. One of the real questions at the heart of the issue is: Can or Can not a person have a personal conviction over a moral issue and stilll be able to be a licensed counselor? I think they can. For example I have seen couselors who disagreed with me on my personal convictions but were able to still give me good advice in following my own course of actions.

dougk
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dougk 12/02/10 - 07:18 pm
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Come on Scoop, the child
Unpublished

Come on Scoop, the child molestation comparison is getting so old. Why don't you use something like alcohol consumption. Some therapists may be morally opposed to alcohol consumption. Do they have the ethical privilege to consider their clients who consume as morally depraved and to attempt to covert them to tea totalers so they don't go to hell?

ron_rlw
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ron_rlw 12/02/10 - 07:27 pm
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dougk -- You've missed the

dougk -- You've missed the point.

She would have legally required to try to get the underage students to stop drink ... it is against law for them to do so.

Also she never indicated that she would use her position to "convert" anyone or to tell them they were going to hell.

The fact is when the government uses its power to force someone to change their moral conviction ... that is a violation of the 1st amendment to the US Constitution. It seems tolerance is only a oneway street for liberals.

I'm not sure why the "child molestation comparision" is getting old ... after all that could very easily be considered a life style choice or se xual preference, and therefore protected under some of the new proposed laws.

scoopdedoop64
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scoopdedoop64 12/02/10 - 07:29 pm
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dougk, its only old because

dougk, its only old because its hard to argue against but whether its either one doesn't matter. to answer your question: its not a matter of going to hell or not because this is not a theological question. Its a matter of evaluating the consequences of chosen behavior patterns and helping a person to either change or accept the consequences of their actions without telling the counselor they have to give up their personal convictions in order to be a "professional Counselor"

dougk
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dougk 12/02/10 - 07:34 pm
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ron, you misssed the point.
Unpublished

ron, you misssed the point. I was not referring to children drinking. I was only making a more valid comparison than the one scoop and other continue to use. And, Ms. Keeton did indicate that she supported and would advocate conversion therapy. That has not only been repeated in the AC reports but is documented in the court record.

dougk
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dougk 12/02/10 - 07:40 pm
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Scoop, the counselor who has
Unpublished

Scoop, the counselor who has moral convictions against alcohol consumption does not have to give up his/her moral convictions. What he/she cannot do, ethically, is impose those convictions on others through professional counseling. Just as Ms. Keeton is not being asked to give up her moral convictions....she is only being required to separate her personal convictions from her professional duties.

ron_rlw
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ron_rlw 12/02/10 - 07:41 pm
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Dougk -- you said "alcohol

Dougk -- you said "alcohol consumption" and I assumed that you meant by someone that Ms. Keeton would have authority over ... which would be underage kids. Othewise you comparison wouldn't make any sense at all if you where talking about adults.

Ms. Keeton could not implement "conversion therapy" unless her supervisors allowed it ... and is some private schools that might happen. But I don't think any public schools (government funded) would allow it.

Why is it that tolerance is only a one way street for liberals and the 1st amendment only applys to liberal adgenda items?

ron_rlw
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ron_rlw 12/02/10 - 07:51 pm
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Dougk ... You said "What

Dougk ... You said "What he/she cannot do, ethically, is impose those convictions on others through professional counseling."

--------
This isn't exactly true ... if a child is acting up in class or failing to study and do their homework. It is the counselors job to try to change the convictions of the student to more closely match the counselor's conviction that learning is important. The counselor at my kids high school has impressed on them ... and us ... that college is a worthy goal and they should put forth every effort to perpare themselves.

The only diffence in these two different convictions is that you might agree with studing hard ... while you personally disagree with Ms. Keeton.

dougk
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dougk 12/02/10 - 07:55 pm
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My comparison makes perfect
Unpublished

My comparison makes perfect sense, ron. Much more sense the child molestation comparison which is illegal and almost univesally highly condemened because there is an identifiable victim.
In most schools, Ms. Keeton would not have "supervisors." She would be working solo as the "school counselor." She would be the certified expert......certified by those who have the credentials to do so....that is, the faculty at ASU who are obligated to certify her based on the accepted standards of the profession. Who are YOU to second guess them?

scoopdedoop64
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scoopdedoop64 12/02/10 - 07:55 pm
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I think Ms. Keeton is being

I think Ms. Keeton is being asked to give up her moral convictions as though they were less/inferior to the pro homosexual view. She is not asking to change others views but simply states that she cannot encourage a person to continue in that lifestyle knowing that it is harmful so she would refer to another counselor.

scoopdedoop64
2353
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scoopdedoop64 12/02/10 - 07:56 pm
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Yes there are many

Yes there are many identifiable victims of homosexuality.

dougk
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dougk 12/02/10 - 08:00 pm
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And, who would that counselor
Unpublished

And, who would that counselor be when SHE is supposed to be the school counselor.
And, now, we have "victims" of homosexuality. My goodness. I suppose we could find a lot of "victims" of heterosexuality, too!! And, based on what you're talking about...probably a whole lot more.

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