Whites claim bias in DeKalb suit

Tuesday, March 23, 2010 5:28 AM
Last updated Wednesday, March 24, 2010 8:40 AM
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ATLANTA  - Testimony is to start today in a federal trial in which plaintiffs argue DeKalb County officials sought to replace white employees with black ones.

Plaintiffs in the 2004 lawsuit accuse former DeKalb County CEO Vernon Jones of ordering a top subordinate to "dig up dirt" on top white managers because he wanted a "darker administration" to reflect the county's racial makeup.

The lawsuit was filed by three whites - Becky Kelley Michael Bryant and John Drake - and one black, Herbert Lowe, who says he was fired because he would not discriminate against white managers.

A federal appeals court has refused to dismiss the case, concluding there was "shocking evidence of an overt an unabashed pattern of discrimination."

Attorney's representing Jones point out he appointed a white director of public safety, a white fire chief and a white county attorney.

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justus4
107
Points
justus4 03/23/10 - 07:13 am
0
0
As an expert on this kinda
Unpublished

As an expert on this kinda stuff, my experience says the CEO (Jones) didn't say something so blatant, but the non-minority individual who says that Jones said it, THINKS his statements will be believed...and so far, they have because that's how the case has gotten this far. The black guy who was fired is the key witness; Ol' Herbert says he was fired due to his unwillingness to "discriminate against whites" which is so honorable - but probably untrue. Here is why the lawsuit will be won by the non-minority plantiffs: The judges will not allow the plantiffs to fail. Their statement about "shocking evidence" seems inflammatory and prejudicial but that demonstrates where they want to go...yep, this is any easy one. Jones will lose and be run out of town and the three whites and one black will get the loot (Ol' Herb will get the lesser amount) and possibly old jobs back. So how can this verdict be so easily predicted? Well, it's simple: This is a national constant pattern followed by U know who. Great country, eh?

JackBeNimble
0
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JackBeNimble 03/23/10 - 07:25 am
0
0
So why is it hard to believe

So why is it hard to believe black people are racist,I work with black people and they say there is a lot of that going.

wizzardx1
0
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wizzardx1 03/23/10 - 07:29 am
0
0
Why so much hate,justus4?

Why so much hate,justus4?

isaidit
0
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isaidit 03/23/10 - 08:00 am
0
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If this is true, it's a

If this is true, it's a shame. Black folk feel they have suffered from discrimination and bias for so long, they prayed to see this change and for the time to come when they can be Mayors, CEO's, Sheriffs, Fire Chief, Judges, Deans, Governors, Congressmen, Senators....President of the United States. It's extremely disheartening to witness their opportunity, their dream, dishonored and corrupted by a few in positions of power and authority past and present. (can you say Charles Walker-even worse, Marion Berry!?). Sure, there's been plenty corruption and abuse by white authority figures thru history...but to suffer under that tyranny just to become the same!!?? I know people tend to vote those of there own race into office, but they need to vote a candidate of high morals and ethics into authoritative positions, with a vision you (the voter/the community) believe in for your respective districts, no matter the race! (District 1 in Augusta is an example) Because I'm a different race and may not have a specific plan for a target group or race of people, but have a very viable plan to improve the quality of life in your neighborhood/district......shouldn't that "trump" just voting in a member of your race!? This epidemic of reverse discrimination is untolerable and holding the entire state back in the 70's! My 2 cents

dstewartsr
20389
Points
dstewartsr 03/23/10 - 08:25 am
0
0
Whatever the perceived

Whatever the perceived 'prejudicial' nature of the court, this is a non-starter. While a local court may find for the plaintiffs, it will be appealed by the countyusing their almost unlimited deep pockets; this means it will go to a 'reconstructionist' oriented court, and be overturned. This same thing happened in Santee with voting rights; the government changed voting from districts (set up to guarantee black representation) to at-large --with the blessings of the court; the same court that prevents whites from changing ANYTHING since the sixties-- when there was a black majority in order to prevent the election of white candidates.

corgimom
34237
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corgimom 03/23/10 - 08:44 am
0
0
Do not rely on Justus'

Do not rely on Justus' "expert" observations. Read the brief for yourself.

And I would like to point out that Justus is accusing a black man of lying in court.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/circs/11th/0616591p.pdf

Pistol
0
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Pistol 03/23/10 - 09:08 am
0
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If anyone wants to see

If anyone wants to see blatant racial discrimination just go to Fort Gordon. You will get all you want.

bentman
462
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bentman 03/23/10 - 09:28 am
0
0
Some people love that victim

Some people love that victim status.

butler123
1
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butler123 03/23/10 - 09:46 am
0
0
It is not fair for you to

It is not fair for you to hate me because I'm white. I can't help it , it's not my fault I was born white. Boo-hoo!

themaninthemirror
0
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themaninthemirror 03/23/10 - 10:13 am
0
0
I was born white, my father

I was born white, my father was a machinist in an iron and steel plant, and my mother was a homemaker for many years, before going to work in a daycare center. Although we were not rich, we had a good life, our needs were met, and we never went lacking. The only discrimination my sister and I suffered were at the hands of other white children who were born into a better economic situation. It is funny, now that we are grown, some of those same people who made fun of us in school, now see that we are their equals in society. My sister is a successful businesswoman, and I own two successful small businesses. The only job that I ever held that I feel that I was truly discriminated against, my supervisor was a black man. So yes discrimination does exist, and as I have found, it is not necessarily a race thing.

southernguy08
499
Points
southernguy08 03/23/10 - 11:18 am
0
0
When an African-American is
Unpublished

When an African-American is denied something based on race, its discrimination. When a white is denied something based on race, its affirmative action. Maybe that's what JUSTUS meant when he said, "Great country, eh?" How about it JUSTUS?

wlightnin42
1
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wlightnin42 03/23/10 - 11:29 am
0
0
You mean to tell me that

You mean to tell me that someone is being racist to White's,unfreakinbelievable. Shouldn't this follow a story about a white man not getting a job that he is more Qualified for than most, simply for the fact that he is White and the company is EOE. What a joke. pick the right PERSON for the job.

Notreally
4
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Notreally 03/23/10 - 11:40 am
0
0
If they were fired for that

If they were fired for that reason then they should sue. Doesn't matter if you black or white (thinks of Michael Jackson).

dichotomy
34496
Points
dichotomy 03/23/10 - 12:42 pm
0
0
If you want to see the face

If you want to see the face of discrimination in hiring today, look talke a look at the faces at almost every desk, and window at county offices, the post office, the VA, or Eisenhower. Or try finding a white salesman at the dealership "on the hill" and most of them on Gordon highway. If you find one, count yourself lucky. I am not making any statement on competency or ability. I am just saying there are blatant examples of where whites are not being hired. You just can't convince me that no white people are applying for the front desk jobs at the post office or to be receptionists at the VA or to be car salesmen on the hill. The people who benefited from court decisions of the past 45 years are now managers and practicing reverse discrimination with a vengeance. And where it is happening it is so obvious that it is laughable. Hopefully the courts will hold them to the same standards as the "good ole boys". We can't fix what is going on at the post office, the VA, or Eisenhower and most other government agencies, particularly in this area. Only the courts can do that. But if you go shopping for a car, or anything else, take a moment to look around at the employees. If you don't see a nice mixture, or more than likely, if you don't see anyone that looks like you, then put your money back in your pocket and move on down the street to the next guy. Then drop the owner a note a let them know why you decided not to buy a car from them. "Equal Opportunity" should be one of them "You asked for it, you got it.....Toyota" situations, so to speak.

themaninthemirror
0
Points
themaninthemirror 03/23/10 - 01:09 pm
0
0
dichotomy- You are so

dichotomy- You are so correct,"You just can't convince me that no white people are applying for the front desk jobs at the post office or to be receptionists at the VA or to be car salesmen on the hill." Also, one has to pass a test to work at the post office, and African-Americans cannot be the only ones making a passing score. I once took a post office test, about twenty years ago, and back then, veterans were given extra points on the test just because they were veterans, now it looks like Affirmative Action is doing the same thing with minorities.

dstewartsr
20389
Points
dstewartsr 03/23/10 - 02:36 pm
0
0
When was the last time there

When was the last time there was a white face checking ID's at Fort Gordon's Gate 1 ... or 2 ... or 5?

Riverman1
87156
Points
Riverman1 03/23/10 - 02:43 pm
0
0
DStewarsr, I don't get that.

DStewarsr, I don't get that. There are whites out there on the gates at times. If the jobs are there and whites don't want them, so be it. That's not an easy job. I went through the gate today and the lady asked me what time it was. She was obviously tired. There is no reason to cast aspersions on the guards who are willing to do that thankless job.

dstewartsr
20389
Points
dstewartsr 03/23/10 - 03:05 pm
0
0
You can't be that dense; I am

You can't be that dense; I am not casting aspersions on the guards- they do not hire themselves. It IS a physically demanding job, but it is a good paying position. As both Dichotomy and Maninmirror pointed out, it is difficult to believe that no whites apply. The gates to Fort Gordon are the face of the post, and it beggars belief that while the force is one-fifth african-american, only one out of twenty security people hired from that pool are white.

andwhatknot
0
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andwhatknot 03/23/10 - 03:15 pm
0
0
Riverman1: I don't think the

Riverman1: I don't think the judgement was on the workers but rather those who do the hiring.
dichotomy: Also take a look at the DMV.
The thing is EOE is a little ironic in itself....Once used to help those discriminated against it is now nothing more than a tool used to keep qualified candis from being hired becuase they aren't 'tokens'. I'm thonking about competeing in the MISS BLACK AUGUSTA PAGEANT b/c i can't find a job with my Maters in Eco.... mainly due to my white skin tone...so maybe I can just catch a ride on a lawsuit:)

sarahs mom
16
Points
sarahs mom 03/23/10 - 03:44 pm
0
0
I have been unemployed for

I have been unemployed for over THREE years. with over 15 yrs of experience.I have lost out on jobs because, I " undervalued" my worth, lost that job to a Young, black female with NO experience, lost another one because I failed to wear a black pantsuit to the interview ( I wore grey) young black female with no experience was hired for that job as well.she owned a black suit, so she got the job. I worked a temp job at MCG and was the ONLY white person in the dept. perm position went to a minority ( Ill let you guess) with less experience. I have also been turned down becasue I am a single parent. One only need to look at the both Ga and SC the majority of its employees are minorities. I have applied numerous times for state of SC jobs only to never get a call or be turned down due to my skin tone. race needs to be removed from all employment applications so the better qualified applicants can fill a position, period;regardless of ethnicity.

stillamazed
1488
Points
stillamazed 03/23/10 - 04:04 pm
0
0
I have noticed the very thing

I have noticed the very thing that the majority are posting here, I work at Fort Gordon and I see the same thing all the time. The problems is that if a white person complains they are racist. I am not a racist person in any sense of the word and I believe in fairness to all but I truly think that in trying to be fair to people of color it has gotten to far out of control like so many things in this country.

Pistol
0
Points
Pistol 03/23/10 - 04:47 pm
0
0
Dstewartsr I've done the same

Dstewartsr I've done the same math as you. 1/5 of the Army is black (there is no such thing as African American, unless you are the President, but that is another story) but go to the training schools and look at the percentages. I would venture to say over 75% of the civilians are minority. The numbers DO NOT ADD UP. And trust me, the best and brightest have NOT been hired!

j2says
3
Points
j2says 03/23/10 - 04:34 pm
0
0
Perhaps, these young black,

Perhaps, these young black, females have more education than you. Experience is not always valued over education. Also, they may have computer skills you lack since your older. There are a lot variables other than race that could be going on here. And since when, did standing at the gates come rain or shine become a choice position?

dstewartsr
20389
Points
dstewartsr 03/23/10 - 04:46 pm
0
0
That deliberately

That deliberately uncomprehending diversionary type of straw argument is precisely why posting on these forums is so frustrating. No one (except you) claimed these were 'choice positions.' But they are the most visible manifestation of the endemic racism that is the hiring process for federal employment.

seenitB4
90981
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seenitB4 03/23/10 - 05:43 pm
0
0
These people will win this

These people will win this lawsuit... V Jones has been in lots of trouble while ceo of Dekalb cty..Wanting white managers out of top positions is just one of the many troubles he had..BTW he was heard to say he wanted the cty.to look more like the people in Dekalb, in other words black. He also was accused of sexual assault, also accused of openly bumping people in the hallways (ones he disagreed with).. His name has been in the AJC often & usually in a negative way.

Riverman1
87156
Points
Riverman1 03/23/10 - 06:56 pm
0
0
No one on these boards has

No one on these boards has stood up against any type quota system more than I have. The best qualified should get the job...period. I also know how the federal civil service works. If you wait long enough you will get a job. I'm not sure about some of this black helicopter stuff of bumping people in the hallways or what have you some are saying, but they seem to be pretty silly allegations to me.

spidermom
0
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spidermom 03/23/10 - 07:20 pm
0
0
I tend to believe both Jones

I tend to believe both Jones and Stone may be not only racially-biased against whites and fair-skinned blacks, but may be also misogynists - women-haters, and perhaps despise intelligent and older black women as well. As a fair-skinned African American woman living in DeKalb County, I experienced what I believed was discrimination by the former HR manager, Vernon Jones' most recent cohorts and Joe Stone, in particular, when I applied for a position as legal assistant with the County two years ago.

Two years ago, I was at the County, applying for a job. Sitting in a room with about 20 darker-skinned 20- and 30-something females, we had gotten half-way through the middle of a very poorly-written and grammatically error-filled test for a legal assistant position in DeKalb County.

As we waited to begin, I listened to the other women's conversations. They spoke with very bad, embarrasing English, i.e., dis, dat, I done dat, etc., for the most part. The HR man came into the room and looked us over. As I smiled hello, he looked at me as if I had done something wrong, but I was determined to remain positive and unafraid. (He had violated my trust some time earlier, when I formerly worked for the county and in confidence requested help when I reported several sexually- and racially-charged meetings with a former boss.)

After about ten minutes of the 30-minute grammar test, I was almost finished (plowing through trying to figure what such simple, elementary questions so badly-written meant), when the HR fellow came and told me I had to stop and leave because I had missed more than half the answers and could not take the test again. I was stunned, for I knew better and had checked my answers as I went along. He refused to allow me to see my answers, and said I had to leave.

I was offered a subsequent position with the court system which required no testing, only experience as a legal assistant, and was scheduled to begin, when the final interview was suddenly canceled and never rescheduled with no explanation.

I have no criminal record, and received great evaluations on my jobs. I have two degrees from Georgia State University, and was on the Dean's List there. I am a published writer/editor and former public relations director for some governmental, legal, and non-profit agencies. Mama was an English teacher, and I was an all-A student in the subject. As a young senior citizen, I was urgently seeking employment with my old employer, the County.

At the age of 65, I have suffered the affronts of "my own people" all my life for not being "black enough", even when I grew out a gigantic Afro in the 60s and 70s, and participated in the civil rights movements in Atlanta with SNCC and other radical groups.
Potential friends, co-workers, church members, supervisors, nothing I did was good enough, and I was so hurt when a church member said to me, the same thing she had said to my mother 50 years ago, "You must think you're white." Mama endured the same prejudice and had her heart broken mostly by black folks, not whites in the segregated South.

Other fair-skinned blacks confide that they, too, have suffered more discrimination and negative responses from blacks than whites in all my years. I've debased myself, humbled myself, and almost resorted to licking their boots in order to be treated with some modicum of dignity by "my own people". It took a Christian psychologist two years ago to convince me that it was okay for me to be who I am just as God made me, and to stop trying so hard to be accepted by ignorant people, whatever color. I finally don't care any more...they're missing out on a good friend.

seenitB4
90981
Points
seenitB4 03/23/10 - 07:31 pm
0
0
Riverman .. When you are a

Riverman .. When you are a female & a man with the size of V. Jones bumps you into the wall it isn't a joke..If this didn't happen then the AJC is lying about the incidents..

j2says
3
Points
j2says 03/23/10 - 08:14 pm
0
0
I don't know anything about

I don't know anything about Vernon Jones except what has been written here and it sounds as though he may have abused his power. His behavior seems to be unfortunate and unnecessary. With that being said, I would be remiss to let that fair-skin black comment go without remark. Dark-skin blacks have also been discriminated against within our own race, as well. Has the poster, ever heard of a paper bag test? It happens and it's inexcusable behavior that is perpetrated by stupid, insecure people.

KSL
134766
Points
KSL 03/24/10 - 12:57 am
0
0
I was asked to fill in during

I was asked to fill in during a medical leave for an employee. I am white, she was black. Not only did I have to learn how to do the job, I had to clean up a totally unorganized mess during the course of that time, which I did. When she came back from her medical leave, I was asked to stay on an extra week and explain how I had organized the correction to the chaos that she had been responsible for. Ohh, she did change things right away. Not back to the chaos that she had, but to a system that didn't do one thing. Change for the sake of making it her way.

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